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Re:Plausibly deniable encryption (2020) by noel99 on Friday February 18, 2022 @02:10PM (#30389834)
Prison doesn’t work. At all. My views are more radical than ever. The lesson to learn is; never try to effect serious social change via peaceful means, go directly to illegal means, bypassing legal protest will mean the police won’t know who they are looking for.

I can’t say I lose a seconds sleep over the “victims”, they are weak minded crybabies

Re:Plausibly deniable encryption (2020) by vkk8 on Saturday February 19, 2022 @10:03AM (#30397615)
I don't think the point of prison is to change your views (the system doesn't care what your views are). It's to make you less likely to re-offend and the vast majority of people to not offend at all. I would guess that there are lots of people with radical views who never act on them exactly because they are afraid of the legal consequences (e.g. prison). This means the system has worked on them.

EDIT: Not that I'm defending any particular prison system or making a moral statement here. In many countries the prison system is horrible and probably not even very optimal at preventing offences. It's just that in my mind the prison has one main purpose; to act as a deterrent for crime, and most of the time, for most of the population, it somewhat works for that purpose.

Re:Plausibly deniable encryption (2020) by bmsleight_ on Friday February 18, 2022 @02:42PM (#30390174)
I do get that prison will not change your deeply held views.

I am curious if the getting a job using the A-level, reduced your likelihood of reoffending, at the risk of your current job ?

Re:Plausibly deniable encryption (2020) by noel99 on Friday February 18, 2022 @06:28PM (#30392609)
The a level was just for fun. I did a masters in computer science from a too 3 UK university. Not that anyone has ever asked to see my degree certificate…
Re:Plausibly deniable encryption (2020) by danuker on Friday February 18, 2022 @06:22PM (#30392544)
> reduced your likelihood of reoffending

Dear John Doe,

Please inform us when and where you plan to infringe the law again. Thank you in advance.

Sincerely,

your government

Re:Plausibly deniable encryption (2020) by missedthecue on Friday February 18, 2022 @02:14PM (#30389892)
What do you think could the prison system have done differently to make your views less radical and extreme?
Re:Plausibly deniable encryption (2020) by kspacewalk2 on Friday February 18, 2022 @02:33PM (#30390087)
This question somewhat trivializes the "radicals" and their "extreme" views and denies them agency. What would it take for you to change your strongly held views, "extreme" or otherwise? Who the fuck knows, right? But probably nothing formulaic and generalizable. So it is with others.
Re:Plausibly deniable encryption (2020) by danuker on Friday February 18, 2022 @06:24PM (#30392560)
> But probably nothing formulaic and generalizable.

I found the "Seek first to understand, then to be understood" rule in the 7 Habits book illuminating.

If only government, lawmakers, and the electorate in general, understood it.

Re:Plausibly deniable encryption (2020) by noel99 on Friday February 18, 2022 @02:19PM (#30389944)
Nothing, prison is a warehouse. Remember though all that occurred was property damaged and a level of intimidation that would make a person of sturdy character laugh, on the spectrum of political action it really was not that extreme
Re:Plausibly deniable encryption (2020) by causality0 on Friday February 18, 2022 @06:49PM (#30392806)
I don't think getting fake bombs in the mail would make anybody laugh regardless of their character.
Re:Plausibly deniable encryption (2020) by sweetbitter on Friday February 18, 2022 @11:18PM (#30394393)
Only more fragile types (people who care about and/or actually believe in mortality) wouldn't, I wager.
Re:Plausibly deniable encryption (2020) by bmsleight_ on Saturday February 19, 2022 @06:47AM (#30396383)
> level of intimidation that would make a person of sturdy character laugh

The intent was for the intimidation to work, so regardless of how sturdy the character. Its hardly a victimless crime.

Marching and demonstrating maybe not as effective, but I find it hard to celebrating trying to harm another person, regardless of how ineffective. Non-violence is a good way to change unjust laws, intimidation is not just.

Re:Plausibly deniable encryption (2020) by staticassertion on Friday February 18, 2022 @03:08PM (#30390416)
How could a prison system ever really do that? It's a punishment. You learn that what you did before has consequences, not that it was wrong.

Rehabilitating someone with "radical" ideas would involve acknowledging and challenging their ideas. That's not how rehabilitation really works even in theory - most rehabilitation is taking criminals who aren't ideologically motivated and solving the much simpler problems of educating them so that they can work.

Re:Plausibly deniable encryption (2020) by GoodbyeMrChips on Friday February 18, 2022 @04:24PM (#30391312)
> How could a prison system ever really do that? It's a punishment.

Reading this, I'd bet £1000 to spat out sweet you are US-American?

Because elsewhere, most of the civilised world treats prison as rehabilitation.

Re:Plausibly deniable encryption (2020) by narag on Friday February 18, 2022 @05:44PM (#30392160)
There are actually three different justifications for prison:

* Retribution ("a punishment")

* General prevention ("a jailed person cannot keep hurting others and prison threat is a deterrent")

* Special prevention (rehabilitation)

Last time I looked, most countries are mostly for general prevention with a pinch of special prevention. Retribution is not currently defensible philosofically or technically, though some people errounesly think it's the basis of the system.

Re:Plausibly deniable encryption (2020) by fsckboy on Friday February 18, 2022 @08:41PM (#30393622)
4. Deterent
Re:Plausibly deniable encryption (2020) by stirfish on Friday February 18, 2022 @09:57PM (#30394022)
5. Make money
Re:Plausibly deniable encryption (2020) by fennecfoxen on Friday February 18, 2022 @04:39PM (#30391458)
I'm quite curious: who counts as 'civilized' these days? Clearly not the UAE (we've just seen an article on Dubai debtors prisons on these pages) but it seems we'd need to take Japan off the list, for instance (see e.g. https://www.economist.com/asia/2015/12/03/silent-screams ) and if we have to take them off the list I'm not sure where we end up stopping
Re:Plausibly deniable encryption (2020) by Lio on Friday February 18, 2022 @09:10PM (#30393791)
The Netherland seems like a good bet.

I look with envy at how they do a lot of things.

Re:Plausibly deniable encryption (2020) by eyelidlessness on Saturday February 19, 2022 @12:19AM (#30394620)
Apart from the pissing contest of who has a better penal system, can anyone in this discussion show that there’s a system to imprison people which parts people with their strongly held moral beliefs and should do so?
Re:Plausibly deniable encryption (2020) by staticassertion on Friday February 18, 2022 @04:53PM (#30391598)
I would assume that in most countries rehabilitation is seen the same way as here in the US. It focuses on the top causes for crimes - lack of education, lack of opportunity. So there are rehabilitation programs that educate people and help place them in work programs.

I would assume that rehabilitation does not focus on changing people's ideological values.

Am I wrong? Is that a thing in other countries?

Re:Plausibly deniable encryption (2020) by eyelidlessness on Saturday February 19, 2022 @12:24AM (#30394641)
Generally rehabilitating beliefs is associated with authoritarian regimes (reeducation camps) or abuse (claiming to cure innate characteristics that others find inconvenient like sexuality or disability)
Re:Plausibly deniable encryption (2020) by Retric on Friday February 18, 2022 @05:34PM (#30392043)
Very much so, de-radicalization in prisons is at least attempted in many places. Here is a look at EU’s approach which varies quite widely. https://iris.unito.it/retrieve/handle/2318/1720819/557443/Pr...
Re:Plausibly deniable encryption (2020) by nootropicat on Friday February 18, 2022 @05:18PM (#30391875)
>most of the civilised world treats prison as rehabilitation.

Few countries in Western and/or Northern Europe? That's a very narrow definition.

Re:Plausibly deniable encryption (2020) by bidirectional on Friday February 18, 2022 @06:38PM (#30392711)
Presuming because of your use of pounds: do you seriously think our prison system is particularly rehabilitative?
Re:Plausibly deniable encryption (2020) by rootusrootus on Friday February 18, 2022 @08:58PM (#30393733)
> most of the civilised world

Even without the spelling or the previous reference to GBP, I could have guessed nationality from your tone.

Re:Plausibly deniable encryption (2020) by noel99 on Friday February 18, 2022 @06:30PM (#30392622)
Agreed.
Re:Plausibly deniable encryption (2020) by Quekid5 on Friday February 18, 2022 @05:40PM (#30392123)
Very interesting.

As far as I understand it, lengthy sentences don't work -- the likelihood of getting caught does. (I mean in a statistical sense. But I might have read this before the replication crisis, so caveat lector.)

... but also: Do you have any evidence of your claims? Literally any evidence of being who say you are?

Re:Plausibly deniable encryption (2020) by noel99 on Friday February 18, 2022 @06:32PM (#30392636)
No ofc not. Who knows who is reading this. I fly under the radar and I like it that way
Re:Plausibly deniable encryption (2020) by denton-scratch on Saturday February 19, 2022 @05:51AM (#30396098)
> the likelihood of getting caught does.

This.

Many crimes are barely enforced; I'm thinking of some kinds of moving-traffic offences such as using a phone while driving. Because it's not enforced, people keep doing it; so the government increases the fines.

But increasing the fines has zero effect, if everyone knows the law isn't enforced.