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Re:Google Search Is Dying by narag on Tuesday February 15, 2022 @11:18AM (#30348472)
That's like speaking to little children, that are learning to talk, reproducing their errors. Some adults believe that it's cute, but it's idiotic, confuses the babies and make their progress more difficult and slow.
Re:Google Search Is Dying by iainmerrick on Tuesday February 15, 2022 @11:53AM (#30349059)
I don’t think this means anything for the point you wanted to make about search results, but please note you’re exactly wrong about baby talk! It’s not a good analogy.

Baby talk (or CDS, child-directed speech) helps engage their attention and provides valuable feedback. Kids who experience less CDS develop language more slowly.

See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baby_talk

(I heard about this research a number of years ago. Although I must admit, now I wonder if it’s affected by the science reproducibility crisis!)

Re:Google Search Is Dying by brimble on Tuesday February 15, 2022 @12:29PM (#30349627)
N = 3, we intentionally never baby talked to our kids, and spent a lot more time reading them novels and other things without pictures or simplified language than (I'd guess) most people do (we did also do plenty of picture books), and their language development was in all three cases way ahead of schedule.

Could just be luck (well, genetics, probably) I guess. Maybe they'd have developed even faster if we'd used baby talk. One shitty thing about parenting is it's really hard to tell what helped, what hurt, and what didn't matter at all.

Re:Google Search Is Dying by db65edfc7996 on Tuesday February 15, 2022 @01:58PM (#30351029)
>...their language development was in all three cases way ahead of schedule.

I would put a lot more of it to having (seemingly) engaged parents. Even a backwards strategy enacted by a loving parent who is consistently trying their best is likely to outperform the result that most can manage (owing to time/money/education/etc).

Re:Google Search Is Dying by rdtsc on Tuesday February 15, 2022 @04:06PM (#30352715)
That is my belief as well: being there, listening, interacting lovingly, paying attention is overwhelmingly more important than a particular technique.
Re:Google Search Is Dying by gwd on Tuesday February 15, 2022 @02:42PM (#30351608)
I've never baby-talked to our son, but I do coach him to say things that are within (or almost) within his speaking capabilities. So for instance, this evening we were reading The Gruffalo, and he pointed to the fox and said, "Fox eat!" I said, "The fox wants to eat the mouse?" He said, "Yeah!" So I tried to coach him to say "Fox eat mouse". He got as far as "Fox eat there"; maybe he'll get to "Fox eat mouse" in a week or two.
Re:Google Search Is Dying by KerrAvon on Tuesday February 15, 2022 @02:50PM (#30351708)
I did this as well with the same results (but also have reason to believe genetics played a major part). But I'm not sure we're optimizing for the right thing. I'm far from convinced that accelerated language development is a good thing. I think development may suffer in other areas.
Re:Google Search Is Dying by erosenbe0 on Tuesday February 15, 2022 @10:26PM (#30356025)
Why would you believe genetics plays a part? There is minimal evidence for that. You have actual evidence for things like your higher than average time engagement, nutritional indicators, as well as health and dental care. You probably live somewhere with decent air and water quality. Then of course the likely fact that parents have relatively prodigious vocabularies, fluency and articulation. This is why your kids are smart.

Genetics are a marginal element approaching none.

Re:Google Search Is Dying by matthewterhune on Wednesday February 16, 2022 @12:03AM (#30356547)
Lots of evidence that genetics have a large influence on early language development, especially speech, if you care to look. E.g. this study finds genetics contributing over 60% of variance: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3851292/
Re:Google Search Is Dying by erosenbe0 on Wednesday February 16, 2022 @10:10PM (#30369113)
No doubt when we start looking at impairments and deficits that you can find plenty of situations where a high proportion of the phenotypic variance is heritable. But when you restrict the study to the top 60th to 95th percentile (which we are discussing here) I don't think you will find particularly strong relationships.
Re:Google Search Is Dying by erosenbe0 on Tuesday February 15, 2022 @10:15PM (#30355965)
It's not genetics or a language strategy, just engagement.

Compare a toddler living in a ghetto concrete jungle to one who takes daily strolls through Central Park or Suburbia. The enrichment of parents teaching about the trucks and the trees and the lady with a purple hat pays massive returns.

Re:Google Search Is Dying by nsxwolf on Tuesday February 15, 2022 @12:55PM (#30350099)
Yeah, I'm not capable of baby talk. Too weird. I have always talked to my kids like they were adults. They seem fine.
Re:Google Search Is Dying by flatiron on Tuesday February 15, 2022 @01:13PM (#30350368)
I did goo goo gaa gaa for the first 6-8 months since you can tell there’s really nobody home up there yet and it’s cute and engaged my other kids to play with the youngest. But yes. Mine seem fine as well so I doubt CDS is going to make/break a human being.
Re:Google Search Is Dying by narag on Tuesday February 15, 2022 @12:44PM (#30349915)
...but please note you’re exactly wrong about baby talk!

But, but... I didn't say anything about baby talk!!

The definition in that Wikipedia page is about something completely different: exaggerating intonation.

Re:Google Search Is Dying by cptaj on Tuesday February 15, 2022 @02:10PM (#30351188)
I think this has proven to be false.

Fathers descend to "baby talk" when the child is learning and slowly bring them up to par instead of trying to just force perfect talk from the start. They do this instinctively.

There's some great comments on this from salman khan, I think. He recorded the first years of his kid's life at home and documented this phenomenon

Re:Google Search Is Dying by recursive on Tuesday February 15, 2022 @11:34AM (#30348754)
It's not idiotic if it's what the people (generally) want.
Re:Google Search Is Dying by dylan604 on Tuesday February 15, 2022 @11:46AM (#30348958)
You think the baby really wants to hear googoo gaagaa? Now, they are trying to say "I'm hungry. Feed me!" Babies must look at adults doing the googoo gaagaa, and think to themselves that these adults are absolute morons.

The sites that Googs returns are basically the internet's version of googoo gaagaa. I look at the websites returned, and often think that the site's owners must be morons. Useless drivel clearly designed to game the Goog search results. I think think about how moronic it is that Googs allows this.

Re:Google Search Is Dying by narag on Tuesday February 15, 2022 @12:52PM (#30350051)
You think the baby really wants to hear googoo gaagaa? Now, they are trying to say "I'm hungry. Feed me!"

I suspect they know the sound they want to make but they don't know how to articulate it. They make an approximation and we can encourage them repeating the correct version, so they realize we understood what they're trying to do: "you're half way" but repeating their approximation is misleading.

Re:Google Search Is Dying by iainmerrick on Tuesday February 15, 2022 @03:45PM (#30352446)
Most people don’t literally say “goo goo ga ga” to babies; what they actually do is echo babies’ nonsense sounds back at them.

I subscribe to the theory that this helps babies understand what they sound like, and therefore helps them learn how to produce the sounds they want.

Re:Google Search Is Dying by recursive on Tuesday February 15, 2022 @11:50AM (#30349012)
"Googoo gaagaa" sounds like happy baby babble to me. Mine would more like "waaaaaaaAAAAaahhh" when they were hungry.

Congratulations on recognizing the true morons.

Re:Google Search Is Dying by kuboble on Tuesday February 15, 2022 @01:48PM (#30350898)
In my experience waaaaaaaAAAAaahhh meant wet diaper or something hurts. Leeeeeah, leeeaaaahhh was being hungry. Phonetically is similar to the beginning of a polish word mleko (milk)