So we get back to the original point, how do these people ruin flights?

By severe ideological mismatch

You mean, it is unpleasant to fly side by side with people with another ideology? So society have to strip them of their rights to move freely?

If that ideology indicates the person is not interested in decreasing safety risks then I'd kinda prefer them to not sit in the same plane.

> strip them of their rights to move freely?

Is access to airplanes necessary for that right? I don't think so, the existence of a no-fly list wouldn't be consistent with that either.

It is rather impractical to travel extended distances without access to airplanes, seems like an unreasonable burden.

> What's with all the whiney low-effort replies, dude? You're going to have to put a hell of a lot more effort and evidence into your replies, since you've chosen to put up an ideological defense and carry the water for Anti-Vax Science Deniers.

So what was your scientific argument for mandating vaccines against SARS-CoV-2 in the age of the Omicron variant again?

Please stop breaking the site guidelines Don. You've been relapsing and we need that not to happen.

I’m all for vaccines and masks but your ideas on how to deal with dissidence are terrifying.

I just hope in comes from a place of ignorance and heat of the moment.

I think you read much more into this than I wrote, in fact I have no idea what exactly in my comment you find terrifying.

Banning access to airplanes is already being done in cases where the airline decides a passenger isn't worth the trouble, just like a restaurant owner can ban people. Using a no-fly list is too much, and wouldn't do more than that either way.

Anti-vaxxers/Covid deniers have physically assaulted and sometimes even killed bystanders and it's not far-fetched to assume they don't take safety of other community members as seriously. Why would I want to share a plane with such people?

> Anti-vaxxers/Covid deniers have physically assaulted and sometimes even killed bystanders

Some extremists that are also supposedly unvaccinated have done that.

Lumping everyone together under one insulting label and then judging them by the worst apples leaves you with a skewed image.

> and it's not far-fetched to assume they don't take safety of other community members as seriously. Why would I want to share a plane with such people?

I would say it is extremely far-fetched. Of the unvaccinated people that I know, nobody is aggressive or violent or would ever engage in behavior that is risking the safety of other passengers.

Punishing them for what some extremists have done is neither fair nor lawful.

> Why would I want to share a plane with such people?

Would you prefer to share your plane with a psychopath who happens to be vaccinated or a lovely person that happens to be unvaccinated?

Not for me, but for some people it seems like this is the case.

The comment above me, which I was replying to, is not about flights but is instead claiming that the vaccine does not help prevent hospitalization, which I pointed out is patently false.

They are not.

"This is not in disupte except by conspiracists"

US data simply doesn't match figures reported by other comparable countries around the world and is likely to be distorted in some way. For example, here's a story from the UK in October/November last year saying that the majority of Covid ICU patients were vaccinated.

https://dailysceptic.org/2021/12/11/majority-of-covid-icu-pa...

That's the British government's own data which is of decent quality (mostly). US data is virtually uninterpretable in comparison.

US hospitals in areas with low vaccination rates, compared to a much higher overall rate in Britain, explains this difference.

Your stat is misleading, because ICU rates are much lower overall than would be the case if there was no vaccine at all.

Finally, your link is outdated. Unvaccinated are back to the majority of ICU admissions in Britain, if you look at the most recent source data.

But we're not debating whether the stat is misleading or not - I think pretty much every stat about COVID vaccines is misleading in various different subtle ways. The original claim in dispute was a factual statement about particular numbers along with a claim that only "conspiracists" could disagree this. But the claim has been wrong in the UK in the recent past, and this is not a matter of "conspiracies" but of published fact, therefore the claim is wrong and people should stop making it.

Re: out of date. I'll take your word for it on the UK data now, but it hardly matters. Here's one from today showing the same thing for Israel:

https://dailysceptic.org/2022/02/05/80-of-serious-covid-case...

"Professor Yaakov Jerris, the Director of a coronavirus ward in an Israeli hospital, has said between 70% and 80% of the serious cases in his hospital are vaccinated and that the vaccine has “no significance regarding severe illness”. Israel National News has the story."

You’re arguing a strawman by responding to a statement about transmission with a conversation about hospitalization.

No. I'm quite directly responding to the comment above mine, which is about hospitalization.

user consp said: "[the vaccine] massively prevents hospitalization and severe side effects, including death"

user otabdeveloper4 replied: "Statistics show otherwise. [I do] math and statistics for a living"

To which I replied that severe COVID hospitalizations (i.e. ICU) are dominated by unvaxxed.

This is incorrect. Prof. Yaakov Jerris, who actually works in a corona ward, has these observations:

https://www.israelnationalnews.com/news/321674

Are Israeli hospitals really overloaded with unvaccinated COVID patients? According to Prof. Yaakov Jerris, director of Ichilov Hospital’s coronavirus ward, the situation is completely opposite.

“Right now, most of our severe cases are vaccinated,” Jerris told Channel 13 News. “They had at least three injections. Between seventy and eighty percent of the serious cases are vaccinated. So, the vaccine has no significance regarding severe illness, which is why just twenty to twenty-five percent of our patients are unvaccinated.”

Explain first why there are no unvaxxed ICU hospitalzations in unvaxxed Africa.

(Oh wait, you will suddenly remember about proper sampling and bias when arguing against a position you find ideologically abhorrent. Neat.)

Sarcastic tone isn't helpful.

I am asking what is the alternative explanation why the US covid ICU hospitalizations are dominated (upwards of 90%) by unvaccinated people. If the vaccine were ineffective against hospitalization --as you claimed-- wouldn't the ICU unvaxxed percentage be 50%? I'm legitimately interested to hear if there's an alternative explanation (besides "All the hospitals in the US are lying").

Sample and data collection bias.

The people doing the research had a foregone conclusion - "vaccines are crucial in our anti-Covid effort" - and then went out of their way to massage the data to prove their point.

Other countries had different foregone conclusions, and demonstrate entirely different results.