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Re:Washington state shuts down Amazon price-fixing program n... by bo1024 on Wednesday January 26, 2022 @07:09PM (#30094092)
It sounded to me like the problem part was where Amazon sold competing products, then used the agreement to price-fix between their own products and the third party's.

Example: Amazon sells a dongle for $20, the competitors sell them for $20. Amazon makes a deal with each competitor, then raises all the prices to $25.

(edit) I think this kind of example also: The competitor's dongle is priced at $24 on Best Buy. Amazon raises competitor's the price to $24, but keeps its own dongle priced at $20.

> The “Sold by Amazon” program resulted in prices for some products increasing when Amazon programmed its pricing algorithm to match the prices that certain external retailers offer to online consumers.

> As a result, when prices increased, some sellers experienced a marked decline in the sales and resulting profits from products enrolled in the program. Faced with price increases, online customers sometimes opted to buy Amazon’s own branded products — particularly its private label products. This resulted in Amazon maximizing its own profits regardless of whether consumers paid a higher price for sales of products enrolled in the “Sold by Amazon” program or settled for buying the same or similar product offered through Amazon.

Re:Washington state shuts down Amazon price-fixing program n... by cmroanirgo on Wednesday January 26, 2022 @07:41PM (#30094399)
"Loss Leader" is the term and the problem.

A wholesaler sells to a reseller at their usual price. Reseller deliberately sells less than RRP & sometimes less than their buy price. It's a good way to guarantee the reseller "owns" the market. Then, if the reseller is big enough and has captured the market, has the leverage to tell the wholesaler to lower the wholesale price and/or the reseller gets it made elsewhere and becomes the wholesaler.

It's pretty nasty.

It happened to my family business. A big box chain sold the same products for less than their buy price. We were close friends with the wholesaler ( a timber mill), and the sales rep even went to the big box to get them to lift their price.

2 years after shutting us down, the big box store sells the same product, from the same source, for 50% more than we ever used to sell it for.

Re:Washington state shuts down Amazon price-fixing program n... by fragmede on Wednesday January 26, 2022 @09:07PM (#30095242)
It's more nefarious than simple loss-leadering and undercutting your competitor's margins. That's business 101. Amazon is playing business 201. Amazon took over pricing for the widget, and then undercut that price with their own. Stay with me for a second because 201 is kinda complicated.

Widget usually sells for $25. Amazon agrees to buy 1 from you at $20 (you give them a volume discount because it's Amazon buying so you figure it'll sell like hotcakes. You still make a profit at $20.). Amazon then prices your widget on their marketplace for $30. Seems fine so far. The trick is that Amazon turns around and sells their widget, made by an alternate supplier, for $23.

Your deal with Amazon means you no longer have control over how much your widget sells for, just that you're selling them to Amazon at $20 and Amazon gets to charge however much they want.

To no one's surprise, your widget, priced at $30, doesn't sell because Amazon's is $23. You're not allowed to turn around and sell them on Amazon's marketplace at all, so they just sit there at $30 and don't sell.

Re:Washington state shuts down Amazon price-fixing program n... by granzymes on Wednesday January 26, 2022 @09:36PM (#30095477)
Is there any evidence this happened? It seems like companies would simply leave the "sold by Amazon" program, and quickly.
Re:Washington state shuts down Amazon price-fixing program n... by YeBanKo on Wednesday January 26, 2022 @11:34PM (#30096250)
Its actually right in the posted link:

The “Sold by Amazon” program resulted in prices for some products increasing when Amazon programmed its pricing algorithm to match the prices that certain external retailers offer to online consumers.

As a result, when prices increased, some sellers experienced a marked decline in the sales and resulting profits from products enrolled in the program. Faced with price increases, online customers sometimes opted to buy Amazon’s own branded products — particularly its private label products. This resulted in Amazon maximizing its own profits regardless of whether consumers paid a higher price for sales of products enrolled in the “Sold by Amazon” program or settled for buying the same or similar product offered through Amazon.

Re:Washington state shuts down Amazon price-fixing program n... by granzymes on Thursday January 27, 2022 @02:44AM (#30097495)
Yes, I read that. It doesn't address my point, which is that merchants would just leave the program if they faced declining sales.
Re:Washington state shuts down Amazon price-fixing program n... by bogwog on Thursday January 27, 2022 @01:57PM (#30104582)
Are you asking if a seller would leave, or could leave? To the former the answer is obviously “yes they would”, to the latter idk.

But regardless, even if they are allowed to leave the program, that doesn’t make it any less illegal.

Re:Washington state shuts down Amazon price-fixing program n... by KittenInABox on Thursday January 27, 2022 @11:54AM (#30102882)
Where would they go? Amazon is where the customers are. This is the problem.
Re:Washington state shuts down Amazon price-fixing program n... by granzymes on Thursday January 27, 2022 @12:18PM (#30103232)
They’d go back to selling outside of this program. They don’t need to leave Amazon to do that.
Re:Washington state shuts down Amazon price-fixing program n... by donarb on Thursday January 27, 2022 @10:22AM (#30101589)
Amazon is actually fixing the price that you are selling on Amazon matched to what other sites are selling. There's no point in leaving if you're selling your widget on other platforms for the same price.
Re:Washington state shuts down Amazon price-fixing program n... by dash2 on Wednesday January 26, 2022 @11:26PM (#30096204)
The article says so.
Re:Washington state shuts down Amazon price-fixing program n... by erik_seaberg on Wednesday January 26, 2022 @11:35PM (#30096258)
That sounds like pretty normal branding. I can get a powered hub for $20 from BUNCHALETTERZ who will disappear without a trace next quarter, or $35 from Anker that I’m pretty sure won’t burn down my apartment.
Re:Washington state shuts down Amazon price-fixing program n... by TehCorwiz on Wednesday January 26, 2022 @11:43PM (#30096303)
Yeah, but normally your competitor doesn't get to choose the price of YOUR widget.
Re:Washington state shuts down Amazon price-fixing program n... by eslaught on Thursday January 27, 2022 @12:47AM (#30096662)
Is that true? This sounds like typical white label type stuff that you'd see at the grocery store. Safeway sells Safeway brand X and also name brand X, and presumably chooses the prices for both.
Re:Washington state shuts down Amazon price-fixing program n... by josefx on Thursday January 27, 2022 @03:34AM (#30097819)
The grocery store probably has less incentive to abuse the relationship since the shelf space both products take up in the store is limited and valuable.
Re:Washington state shuts down Amazon price-fixing program n... by galago on Wednesday January 26, 2022 @08:46PM (#30095040)
There used to be a restaurant chain called "Boston Market" (there are a few left). One of their signature products was cooked rotisserie chickens. What killed them was not a direct competitor, but the fact that Costco did, and still sells a similar product at a one dollar loss per chicken. The loss leader is going on forever.
Re:Washington state shuts down Amazon price-fixing program n... by DoneWithAllThat on Wednesday January 26, 2022 @08:48PM (#30095052)
They have over 300 locations…
Re:Washington state shuts down Amazon price-fixing program n... by eru on Thursday January 27, 2022 @04:07AM (#30098054)
Why does this have to be a loss leader? I'm pretty sure Costco can probably make a profit on that chicken?
Re:Washington state shuts down Amazon price-fixing program n... by blocked_again on Wednesday January 26, 2022 @07:25PM (#30094249)
Well, the competitor did agree to sell the items to Amazon. Nobody forced them. They did it for economic benefit. So I don't understand the problem here.
Re:Washington state shuts down Amazon price-fixing program n... by bee_rider on Wednesday January 26, 2022 @07:40PM (#30094380)
Our system is not a totally free market, we have consumer protection and antitrust regulations to avoid some of the possible negative outcomes there.
Re:Washington state shuts down Amazon price-fixing program n... by blocked_again on Wednesday January 26, 2022 @07:43PM (#30094423)
I don't really buy that consumer protection and antitrust regulations actually result in a better free market. I think the market is better off doing it's thing rather than a bunch of politicians trying to make it more efficient.
Re:Washington state shuts down Amazon price-fixing program n... by bee_rider on Wednesday January 26, 2022 @08:16PM (#30094741)
What do you mean by "better free market?" Are you using terms like "efficient" and "free market" in their technical sense or are you just saying that you don't like regulations?

Definitionally regulations are a divergence from an ideal free market. Provably, under some conditions (which don't exist in the real world) a market will converge to some definition of efficiency. Practically, no politician cares about this.

Politicians aren't trying to make the market more efficient with regulations -- good politicians are trying to protect their constituents, bad ones are mostly trying to protect their donors.

Re:Washington state shuts down Amazon price-fixing program n... by p1necone on Wednesday January 26, 2022 @09:09PM (#30095248)
Do you want a single megacorp ruling the world? Because this is how you get a single megacorp ruling the world.
Re:Washington state shuts down Amazon price-fixing program n... by eru on Thursday January 27, 2022 @04:09AM (#30098067)
Eh, not really. Conglomerates have been on the decline in the last few decades.
Re:Washington state shuts down Amazon price-fixing program n... by kylebyproxy on Wednesday January 26, 2022 @11:36PM (#30096260)
Depends. Is it a worker cooperative that employs everyone?
Re:Washington state shuts down Amazon price-fixing program n... by pixl97 on Wednesday January 26, 2022 @08:01PM (#30094566)
Well then, hopefully you dont want IP laws either.
Re:Washington state shuts down Amazon price-fixing program n... by ggff67 on Wednesday January 26, 2022 @09:13PM (#30095285)
The funny thing is IP laws are by definition monopolies protected by government. Every one of the big tech "quasi-monopolies" are sitting on a mountain of it.
Re:Washington state shuts down Amazon price-fixing program n... by eru on Thursday January 27, 2022 @04:13AM (#30098105)
Be careful, IP is a hodgepodge of things, like copyrights, patents, trademarks, and trade secrets.

To pick one: trade secrets are not a monopoly. If you figure out the secret ingredient in Coca Cola (by legal means), you are free to use that knowledge and even publish it.

Similarly, I have my reservations about whether patents are a good idea; but I don't mind trademarks nearly as much.

Re:Washington state shuts down Amazon price-fixing program n... by eru on Thursday January 27, 2022 @04:08AM (#30098061)
That might be true, but wouldn't matter in a legal sense, if there are anti-trust laws on the book.
Re:Washington state shuts down Amazon price-fixing program n... by ohelabs on Wednesday January 26, 2022 @07:42PM (#30094411)
This is anti trust because it’s probably in violation of the sherman act and price fixing.

The anti trust laws are designed to prevent monopolies and promote competition… as Amazon is acting as the market here and simultaneously fixing prices and discouraging competition with them thats a no-no

Re:Washington state shuts down Amazon price-fixing program n... by daemoens on Wednesday January 26, 2022 @07:38PM (#30094364)
They raised the price of his goods so that they could sell their own product for cheaper.
Re:Washington state shuts down Amazon price-fixing program n... by blocked_again on Wednesday January 26, 2022 @07:41PM (#30094390)
They did bought the goods from him beforehand. And he agreed to sell. He should have considered the possibility that Amazon has option to later sell the items as a higher price. Isn't that obvious to any seller?
Re:Washington state shuts down Amazon price-fixing program n... by brodock on Thursday January 27, 2022 @05:38AM (#30098730)
Amazon does not buy and keep a stock, they charge you for the privilege of selling in their marketplace:

> Sellers then bore the risk of having their products not sell in a timely manner, or at all, while still paying Amazon for things like storage fees of their enrolled products

Re:Washington state shuts down Amazon price-fixing program n... by croes on Wednesday January 26, 2022 @09:18PM (#30095330)
It's about the consumer, price fixing removes the competition and consumer have to pay more than they would in a competitive market. It's sort of a cartel.