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Re:Ant mill by travisgriggs on Saturday January 22, 2022 @04:14PM (#30040891)
Can this be generalized as what happens when a feedback loop finds a local maxima? We see these all over, in software and society.

What makes this particular phenomena fascinating to me, is that it can be right under our nose, going on around us (because the circles can be big), and we don't realize it. Our regularly observed behavior and model of ants isn't this, and when we see one wandering, we don't realize there might be a bigger thing going on. And then we zoom out and there's this "aha" reveal moment, where we discover a model other than what we thought was going on.

Re:Ant mill by _moof on Saturday January 22, 2022 @08:38PM (#30042796)
I'm not usually a grammar guy but this one bugs me: the singular of maxima is maximum. "A local maximum," "twelve local maxima."

Thanks for coming to my TED talk.

Re:Ant mill by jgwil2 on Saturday January 22, 2022 @09:47PM (#30043135)
Also one phenomenon, multiple phenomena.
Re:Ant mill by _moof on Sunday January 23, 2022 @03:14PM (#30050007)
Criterion, criteria... Greek and Latin will get ya.
Re:Ant mill by saltyfamiliar on Saturday January 22, 2022 @10:58PM (#30043506)
I know this but every time I try to speak the words I say the wrong one.
Re:Ant mill by _Nat_ on Saturday January 22, 2022 @06:57PM (#30042138)
It's like a stock-market bubble/crash, where prices can keep going up/down because [investors are acting following one-anothers' lead](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trend_following ).

In both cases, the social-animals are following their peers, inferring direction from them, ultimately forming a big loop that doesn't actually progress to a desired social-outcome because everyone's following everyone-else.

Re:Ant mill by saruken on Sunday January 23, 2022 @09:44AM (#30046462)
The capitalist dream! "Growth" can be infinite along a circular path
Re:Ant mill by appleflaxen on Saturday January 22, 2022 @05:42PM (#30041551)
Is it a local maxima, or is it a metastable solution? Or are those the same thing, at their root?

(this is a legitimate question; I have a very limited math background, and would love to understand the distinctions better, or what variable is being locally maximized, if that's what this is)

Re:Ant mill by envp on Saturday January 22, 2022 @05:52PM (#30041622)
Metastability and local maximums are the same.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metastability

Re:Ant mill by abeppu on Saturday January 22, 2022 @09:33PM (#30043067)
In physical/chemical systems metastability and local _minima_ (of an energy function) are the same. But for cases where the thing being optimized is not energy, and where the universe isn't driven to the optimal state, do they need to be the same?
Re:Ant mill by mizzao on Saturday January 22, 2022 @06:51PM (#30042097)
One example: the current US healthcare system with providers, insurers (e.g. middlemen), and end users?
Re:Ant mill by xvedejas on Saturday January 22, 2022 @11:23PM (#30043606)
It shouldn't be considered a local maximum if slight deviations can improve the situation. In that case, it's just lack of ability to optimize.
Re:Ant mill by euroderf on Sunday January 23, 2022 @04:48AM (#30044920)
"sclerotic"
Re:Ant mill by silisili on Sunday January 23, 2022 @12:51AM (#30043945)
Yeah, after seeing a video, it reminds me of something out of r/politics.
Re:Ant mill by chansiky on Sunday January 23, 2022 @01:02AM (#30043986)
Circular dependency?