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Re:Former Labor Secretary Found What Work Is Like Now by soco on Friday January 21, 2022 @10:08AM (#30024488)
I'm not sure I understand: me as a customer, whether I pay the menu + 20% tip, or I pay a menu 20% more expensive, I end up exactly the same. So why is for the restaurant owner better with tipping, instead of raising the prices 20% and putting an entry sign "no tipping needed here, we pay our workers right"? Even call the restaurant "no tipping place" if they wish. Can someone with experience in restaurant business explain this?
Re:Former Labor Secretary Found What Work Is Like Now by irrational on Friday January 21, 2022 @10:17AM (#30024632)
When did tipping become 20%? The majority of my life it was 15%. Then at a certain point I started hearing 18%. Now it is 20%? Who is behind this?
Re:Former Labor Secretary Found What Work Is Like Now by ModernMech on Friday January 21, 2022 @11:09AM (#30025476)
In my experience:

- Older generations tip maximum 15%, and decide what to tip based on service quality

- Millennials tip a flat 20%, regardless of service quality

- People who worked in the service industry will tip 30%, because they know what it's like.

Re:Former Labor Secretary Found What Work Is Like Now by alexpetralia on Friday January 21, 2022 @11:40AM (#30025978)
Software nudges (e.g. Square). This scales social behavior very quickly.
Re:Former Labor Secretary Found What Work Is Like Now by soco on Friday January 21, 2022 @01:16PM (#30027598)
I'm not from the US so I didn't really have an idea what to take, so I pulled a figure out of my :) sorry for the confusion!
Re:Former Labor Secretary Found What Work Is Like Now by ghaff on Friday January 21, 2022 @10:39AM (#30025025)
Social norms.

But, yes, it's creeped up from 15% before tax to 18-20% on the total bill in general.

Re:Former Labor Secretary Found What Work Is Like Now by irrational on Friday January 21, 2022 @10:43AM (#30025080)
Yes, but social norms don’t come out of nowhere. It was 15% for a long time, then it went to 18% (why 18? I can see the jump to 20% as people wanting to do easier math than 18%). Someone somewhere had to have created this new social norm.
Re:Former Labor Secretary Found What Work Is Like Now by ghaff on Friday January 21, 2022 @10:53AM (#30025212)
> Someone somewhere had to have created this new social norm.

Someone didn't need to do anything and as far as I know, no individual decreed anything. (Although possibly guidebook and etiquette writes have helped contribute.)

It makes some sense with inflation and probably lack of increase in wait staff salaries. Restaurants often show recommended tips and even mandatory service adders for large groups. But, for the most part, it's probably been mostly organic.

Re:Former Labor Secretary Found What Work Is Like Now by peteradio on Friday January 21, 2022 @10:17AM (#30024614)
Menu: $5 burger

Customer 1 (richy rich): $5 + $2 tip

Customer 2 (workin man): $5 + $1 tip

Customer 3 (poor man): $5 no tip

Total: $18

Menu: $6 burger

Customer 1 (richy rich): $6 + $1 tip

Total: $7

You've reduced your customer based on true affordability and perceived affordability. This doesn't consider the margin on selling a single burger but generally you need to push product rather than sell master pieces.

Re:Former Labor Secretary Found What Work Is Like Now by bena on Friday January 21, 2022 @10:36AM (#30024964)
Your contrived hypothetical scenario is not proof of your conjecture.

Because there are plenty of places that don't work with tips that do fine. Hell, some of our least expensive options operate in a tip-free environment. And no restaurant where tipping is expected is selling for the same price as fast food places in the first place. So it's not the scenario where you're looking at two options that seem equally priced, but one has the hidden tip tax on it. No, you're looking at two options where one is just more expensive and you have to tip.

And why are restaurants special in this regard? Why does no other sector have to operate on this model, where a customer has to directly pay a businesses employees? And why only in the U.S.? How did the rest of the world figure this one out but we can't seem to shake it?

Tipping is stupid and is anti-ethical to actual customer service as it pits staff against the customer and creates resentment in both directions.

Re:Former Labor Secretary Found What Work Is Like Now by peteradio on Friday January 21, 2022 @02:27PM (#30028720)
If you look into the financializations of any Restaurant you won't necessarily be able to generalize to all Restaurants. McDonald's empire is built on real estate not burgers anymore for instance.

Anyway I was speaking specifically on my own regions circumstances, we don't have fastfood within a 1hr round-trip. That 1hr adds up to a few bucks gas and time I don't have. There is no 2 options.

Re:Former Labor Secretary Found What Work Is Like Now by bena on Friday January 21, 2022 @03:07PM (#30029260)
Extrapolating from singular circumstances is worse than generalizing from the most common.
Re:Former Labor Secretary Found What Work Is Like Now by pjmorris on Friday January 21, 2022 @10:28AM (#30024819)
Seems like you'd still have two customers (The burger is still in 'workin man''s budget), at 2/3 the food cost.
Re:Former Labor Secretary Found What Work Is Like Now by peteradio on Friday January 21, 2022 @10:37AM (#30024972)
You are right, but I removed him to make the point that this is partly based on perception of the person doing the buying.

Workin man this week is poor man next week and then some weeks he's richy rich. Do you want to capture all forms of this guy?

None of this is rigorous of course but ya know we don't have a town full of 1 guy with a single budget. We have a town full of people with various and changing budgets, what kind of mechanism can be put into place to keep base finances workable in tight times while extracting more in good times?

Re:Former Labor Secretary Found What Work Is Like Now by lotsofpulp on Friday January 21, 2022 @10:48AM (#30025143)
> what kind of mechanism can be put into place to keep base finances workable in tight times while extracting more in good times?

Surely there must be a way because every other business seems to manage, and so do restaurants in 50%+ of the world.

Re:Former Labor Secretary Found What Work Is Like Now by AlexandrB on Friday January 21, 2022 @01:10PM (#30027493)
Based on many of the other comments here it would look more like:

Customer 1 (richy rich): $5 + no tip

Customer 2 (workin man): $5 + $2 tip

Customer 3 (poor man): $5 + $1 tip

The tip amount seems to depend more on empathy/demographics than the amount of money one has to spend.