Toxic culture is driving the great resignation

Re:Toxic culture is driving the great resignation by 2muchcoffeeman on Thursday January 13, 2022 @04:49AM (#29918826)

>* employers are able to give 20-30% raise each year(which is pretty hard)*

Can’t be that hard if an engineer can just walk out and get that. What do you think the replacement will cost? And with none of the knowledge.

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Re:Toxic culture is driving the great resignation by YetAnotherNick on Thursday January 13, 2022 @05:08AM (#29918987)

25% raise over 20 years means 86 times increase in salary over a fresher. And no company could pay 5 million dollar or so for an average 20 years of experience. The entire industry hinges on the fact that a person would only change job 5-6 times in 20 years.

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Re:Toxic culture is driving the great resignation by toyg on Thursday January 13, 2022 @05:24AM (#29919078)

> no company could pay 5 million dollar or so for an average 20 years of experience.

Uh, they seem to find that money just fine for execs, who are not even the ones keeping servers up, so to speak...

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Re:Toxic culture is driving the great resignation by yunohn on Thursday January 13, 2022 @05:47AM (#29919241)

This is a really important point that is always missing in these threads - execs at most companies (even at FAANG, but esp outside) make massive multiples of their average engineer.

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Re:Toxic culture is driving the great resignation by Fiahil on Thursday January 13, 2022 @06:01AM (#29919337)

5.000.000 for a single exec means 50.000 for each of the 100 "average engineers" working in their department. You can overcompensate execs because there fewer of them than engineers.

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Re:Toxic culture is driving the great resignation by mcv on Thursday January 13, 2022 @07:39AM (#29920107)

But also because the exec has more power. More power over budgets, over the company, a closer relationship with the people who decide their salary, etc. We just have power over the tech, which may be vital, but it's not power we leverage very hard.

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Re:Toxic culture is driving the great resignation by rdtwo on Thursday January 13, 2022 @09:12AM (#29920900)

While it may seem that way a lead engineer has more actual ability to swing outcomes than an executive. I can save or loose my company millions in a month but my exec can’t even get us 1-2 people without 3 months of paperwork. He can’t allocate more than 5k in capital without months of review. And he works 60-80hrs a week requesting status. It’s a total joke that he Gets paid 3-4x what engineers do

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Re:Toxic culture is driving the great resignation by mcv on Thursday January 13, 2022 @11:12AM (#29922341)

Was that an executive or a middle manager? It sounds like the latter. But you're absolutely right that it's weird that the people who's job it is to enable engineers, get paid more than the engineers who do the actual work.

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Re:Toxic culture is driving the great resignation by rdtwo on Thursday January 13, 2022 @01:01PM (#29924180)

You can’t tell the difference but he gets executive pay and title

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Re:Toxic culture is driving the great resignation by yunohn on Thursday January 13, 2022 @06:14AM (#29919419)

In this example, how much are these average engineers making? Usually, even at FAANG, less than 10% of them will command a 500k peak-SV salary. So for the rest, 50k each is a sizeable amount of money. In my experience, this is 2x the average yearly bonus.

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Re:Toxic culture is driving the great resignation by odonnellryan on Thursday January 13, 2022 @09:14AM (#29920919)

I've said this before on HN: for a while I thought that execs were overpaid (generally, it is true!) until I worked with some founders and owners of companies who really did bring 10x or 100x the value I did to the company.

It doesn't mean they did 10x the work, but they definitely brought the value.

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Re:Toxic culture is driving the great resignation by yunohn on Thursday January 13, 2022 @09:24AM (#29921017)

Exceptions don’t prove a rule. There are engineers who are also similarly valuable - and they get paid well. But exec/manager/admin pay is always inflated, regardless of that value. I say this from personal experience and insight into salaries at various kinds of companies, FAANG included.

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Re:Toxic culture is driving the great resignation by odonnellryan on Thursday January 13, 2022 @09:35AM (#29921134)

I'm not saying you're wrong.

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Re:Toxic culture is driving the great resignation by 2muchcoffeeman on Thursday January 13, 2022 @05:52AM (#29919287)

Ok. I was a bit hyperbolic. But people aren’t even moving because their current jobs value them for what they are worth.

People literally jump around chasing pay increases. If you got a decent raise comparable to a job change would you jump around every couple years?

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Re:Toxic culture is driving the great resignation by usrbinbash on Thursday January 13, 2022 @06:23AM (#29919486)

They seem to have no problem finding that kind of money for execs and shareholders.

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Re:Toxic culture is driving the great resignation by swiftcoder on Thursday January 13, 2022 @07:50AM (#29920204)

> And no company could pay 5 million dollar or so for an average 20 years of experience

Just how many 20 year experience engineers do you think the average company has?

I have a feeling you will find that the (very small number of) folks who have been at the same FAANG continuously for the past 20 years are indeed making compensation in that ballpark (we're talking Google's Senior Staff Engineer or Amazon's Distinguished Engineer level) - particularly if you take into account the massive stock price increases over that period.

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Re:Toxic culture is driving the great resignation by indymike on Thursday January 13, 2022 @08:29AM (#29920510)

If I could get 30% every time I changed jobs, I'd change jobs once a month.

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