I loved "Alien." Just an awesome film. Over the years there have been several sequels and spinoffs. Probably more bad than good. But there's definitely been some good ones. I just spend less time thinking about the bad ones.

Apart from the first Matrix movie, which is amazing, have the Wachowskis actually made any other good movies? Was it just the case that they were surrounded by talented people in the first movie and listened to them? Then after it was successful they were like "we got this".

Bound? Cloud Atlas? Speed Racer? Reloaded, as a pure action flick?

One thing I admire about the Wachowskis is their insane ambition. You either hate it or love it but let's not pretend like they were just lucky.

Cloud Atlas was a mess.

They wrote the screenplay for 'V for Vendetta', which I thought was a pretty good movie.

What kind of person would take something of their own and ruin it like that?

Tons of people loved the matrix, just let it be.

Plenty of people. Part of the act of creation can be it's destruction https://www.theguardian.com/artanddesign/2021/oct/14/banksy-...

I really don't like this new movie, but it doesn't impact my enjoyment of the ones that came before. If I really cared to, I can just pretend that this movie doesn't exist, as people are fond of doing to the original two sequels.

Even from a "cinematic universe" or "canon" perspective I don't recognize its ability to affect the previous story; we're living in a rapidly accelerating era of media where escapism commands huge money and nostalgia is king; who's to say five or ten years down the line someone else might not make a new Matrix property and retcon the story as told in this one? Would be funny if Lilly Wachowski was the one to do that.

Exactly. There are only 3 Indiana Jones movies.

THERE ARE FOUR LIGHTS!

Assuming the dialog can be believed: they either had to participate in the reboot, or let WB reboot it without them.

Ok, makes sense. Instead of WB making a horrible movie, Wachowski did it for them?

I’m not sure the Wachowski brand has improved after this.

It was rumored that WB would have made another Matrix without Wachowski involvement if she had not agreed to it. Who knows how that would have turned out.

Sure ok, but so what?

What kind of person (allegedly) sinks a movie franchise out of spite?

How about… Not do that and put effort into everything you do?

IDK. Not sure I buy this and think it’s possible the Wachowskis that made the first movies are gone, and this was a good effort. ♬don’t let money change ya♬.

> sinks a movie franchise out of spite?

it's not spite. She didn't "sink" it because she was spiteful, she wanted to say something about the films and her work and chose to deconstruct the act of making a sequel to a trilogy after 20 years. It's their art, they can do what they want with it.

Their work since Matrix has always been avant-guard (Cloud Atlas is barely a film in any normal sense, a Speed Racer film by anyone else isn't _that_) they were never coming back to make another stock science-fiction action film.

The real question is, how did Warner green-light the script and release knowing that it was going say all those things.

It was really petty and I lost a lot of respect for her over this. She could have let WB fail on their own (proving what a masterstroke their first movie was), she could have outdone it (proving she's still a master), or she could have given a middling effort. All of which, IMHO, would have been better than intentionally sullying--frankly, ruining--the original piece.

Frankly I hope I can just forget the fourth movie, because I don't want to watch the first movie knowing that Neo ends up a doddering old pilled-up nutter and Trinity's a cookie cutter soccer mom with barely a bike shop. (and of course, that's silly, because they didn't really end up that way, they were put into that way--at great expense--for why again? stupid plot. Stupid, stupid plot.)

> The real question is, how did Warner green-light the script and release knowing that it was going say all those things.

Self depreciation is fine for WB. Half the jokes in the new Space Jam are meta self-depreciation. (not funny jokes, but jokes nonetheless)

The new Space Jam is hands down the worst picture I've ever seen.

>What kind of person (allegedly) sinks a movie franchise out of spite?

Is it spite to not want your baby to become another Marvel/Star Wars clusterjerk? Perhaps it is, but I think she's allowed that. I don't think the world needs more of those, but it will always need more art and critique.

Better than this one? It's a pretty low bar.