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Re:What NPM should do to stop a new colors attack by zegl on Monday January 10, 2022 @12:15PM (#29878011)
I was trying to find Marak's motives for this, but I couldn't find much, does anyone know more?

On his Twitter Marak is claiming [1] that GitHub/NPM have suspended his account, which is an interesting move, but I guessing that that's the only tool available to prevent further "sabotage".

[1] https://twitter.com/marak/status/1479200803948830724

Re:What NPM should do to stop a new colors attack by dEnigma on Monday January 10, 2022 @12:31PM (#29878299)
Seems likely connected to this old post of his about no longer wanting to provide free service to corporations:

http://web.archive.org/web/20210704022108/https://github.com...

Also he seems to have somewhat of a Guerilla mindset, based on this:

https://nypost.com/2020/09/16/resident-of-nyc-home-with-susp...

Re:What NPM should do to stop a new colors attack by zegl on Monday January 10, 2022 @12:45PM (#29878510)
Thanks for the links!

While it's not enough to generate a stable income, faker.js has received over $20k in donations through Open Collective. It's more than most other projects -- but I guess nowhere near what one could get if a big corporation wanted to sponsor the continued development of the project.

https://opencollective.com/fakerjs

Re:What NPM should do to stop a new colors attack by beanjuiceII on Monday January 10, 2022 @04:47PM (#29883123)
he guy has violent tendencies for sure, he even was arrested for assaulting his ex-girlfriend
Re:What NPM should do to stop a new colors attack by reaperducer on Monday January 10, 2022 @12:37PM (#29878375)
Also he seems to have somewhat of a Guerilla mindset, based on this: https://nypost.com/2020/09/16/resident-of-nyc-home-with-susp...

I see "charged," not "convicted" in that article.

Real world: Innocent until proven guilty.

Internet: Always guilty, because justice doesn't scale.

Re:What NPM should do to stop a new colors attack by ushakov on Monday January 10, 2022 @12:59PM (#29878734)
people don't build bombs for fun
Re:What NPM should do to stop a new colors attack by falcolas on Monday January 10, 2022 @01:53PM (#29879665)
Sure they do. Some call them rockets, others fireworks. Oh, and anvil shooting…
Re:What NPM should do to stop a new colors attack by WJW on Monday January 10, 2022 @03:45PM (#29882098)
Do you really need 40 kg of potassium nitrate for your hobbyist fireworks though? That amount can blow up a house.

Also if you absolutely can't live without the immature thrill of mixing explosives with your bare hands, at least don't do it in a residential neighborhood.

Re:What NPM should do to stop a new colors attack by drawfloat on Monday January 10, 2022 @12:18PM (#29878071)
It seems to be partially that big corporations are using his library without payment – I can sympathise with that, although if you choose to release it under that license I'm not sure whether you can accuse the companies of doing anything particularly wrong.

But also seems to relate it to a pretty insane conspiracy theory that Ghislaine Maxwell was involved in the death of Aaron Swartz, almost entirely based on the debunked theory that an account on Reddit named "MaxwellHill" was hers.

Seems like he was just flailing wildly.

Re:What NPM should do to stop a new colors attack by dane-pgp on Monday January 10, 2022 @06:19PM (#29884486)
> the debunked theory that an account on Reddit named "MaxwellHill" was hers.

I assume by "debunked" you are referring to the Vice article, which offered nothing beyond name-calling of the people investigating the theory, and ended with "u/MaxwellHill did not immediately respond to a request for comment sent through Reddit."[0]

An example of a relevant fact might be that vice.com was the most popular domain among all the links submitted to Reddit by the user MaxwellHill.[1]

It's also worth pointing out that another Reddit mod tried to debunk the theory by claiming that they knew MaxwellHill and that he was a Malaysian man, but this claim started to look suspicious when people found that MaxwellHill had mentioned he/she had "visited" Malaysia before (which is not something one typically says about one's home country).[2]

[0] https://www.vice.com/en/article/y3zbaj/incoherent-conspiracy...

[1] https://www.reddit.com/r/conspiracy/comments/hoqheb/vice_pub...

[2] https://rareddit.com/r/conspiracy/comments/hoopdf/why_is_vic...

Re:What NPM should do to stop a new colors attack by drawfloat on Tuesday January 11, 2022 @01:34AM (#29888307)
No I'm talking about the fact that the only "evidence" is that they share a name. Every other detail doesn't match up, someone did the heavy lifting here: https://coagulopath.com/ghislaine-maxwell-does-not-have-a-se...

The point is there's been no strong evidence, so it's a huge leap to then decide this is a solid basis for "Aaron Swartz was killed because Ghislaine Maxwell was tight with the Reddit staff and he got wind of her child trafficking".

Re:What NPM should do to stop a new colors attack by dane-pgp on Tuesday January 11, 2022 @04:48PM (#29898523)
That's a pretty thorough debunking, thank you, and you're right that it's a huge leap to connect Aaron Swartz to this (which I've seen no evidence for). I do want to say, though, that it's a pity that the debunker didn't get better responses from believers on Twitter, as there are some reasonable counter-arguments.

Firstly, I'm not impressed by the (lack of) probability calculations. The article concedes that the Reddit user and Ghislaine are both born in December, which has, let's say, a 1 in 12 chance, and also says that there are "hundreds of thousands" of Maxwells in the world, so let's say 800,000 out of 8 billion, or 1 in 10,000. So the chance of these two details both coinciding is 1 in 120,000.

On the other hand, there are apparently 430 million active monthly users on Reddit, so we should expect there to be some December Maxwells in there, but considering the user's interests (US politics) and their use of British English spelling and phrases[0], I think the number of non-Ghislaine accounts with all these attributes would be very low.

So the fact that this Reddit user posts consistently for 14 years and then abruptly stops posting (publicly) right at the time of Ghislaine's arrest does seem statistically improbable. The debunker would have us believe that the account is still active sending private messages and posting in private subreddits (and no doubt has a girlfriend who lives in Canada), but if they're happy to have their activity disclosed like that, why wouldn't they also post publicly saying "I'm not Ghislaine you idiots!" or respond to the Vice journalist, for that matter?

Is it really that hard to imagine that influential people on Reddit would fake screenshots of post-arrest MaxwellHill activity to try to distance themselves from the actions of a notorious criminal? Do we just have to take these screenshots at face value, despite all the incentive to fake them, and the fact that a mod has already been caught out in a lie about whether MaxwellHill lived in or visited Malaysia?

The debunker also claims that someone trying to hide their identity (by falsely claiming to be male) wouldn't be so stupid as to use their actual name as part of their username, but obviously the motivation to hide what you are doing changes over time. When MaxwellHill was first registered, it probably seemed anonymous enough (there are "hundreds of thousands" of Maxwells in the world, after all), but over time, as the account became more influential (and Ghislaine got involved in more and more shady activities, and gave away more and more clues about her identity from her posts) she would develop a need to throw people off the trail by dropping some false biographic details.

I won't go into more details about the stylometry and contents of MaxwellHill's posts, as that is more subjective, but I will end by saying there is nothing contradictory about Ghislaine as a Redditor making negative comments about Trump (which is implied but not cited by the debunker) but Ghislaine in person bragging to someone about being a friend of Trump. It's possible that she hates Trump's current politics, but got on fine with him in a social setting 20 years ago, for example. In fact I suspect that one of her greatest talents is being able to seem friendly and trustworthy to powerful people whose actions she doesn't fully agree with.

[0] https://www.rareddit.com/r/conspiracy/comments/hnfx0r/not_co...

Re:What NPM should do to stop a new colors attack by smt88 on Monday January 10, 2022 @12:24PM (#29878173)
He was arrested a while back for having bomb-making materials in his apartment. Based on that and some other public comments, he seems to be mentally ill.
Re:What NPM should do to stop a new colors attack by nonethewiser on Monday January 10, 2022 @12:39PM (#29878425)
> It seems to be partially that big corporations are using his library without payment

He doesn't charge for it.

Re:What NPM should do to stop a new colors attack by rsstack on Monday January 10, 2022 @12:28PM (#29878249)
He is mentally unstable. His motives are probably irrational. This is not the first time he reaches the news for strange criminal activities.

(Yes, it's his code. No, it isn't legal to maliciously add an infinite-loop to a library that you know is used by other companies. The license adds some liability protection, but it's not so simple.)

Re:What NPM should do to stop a new colors attack by _fat_santa on Monday January 10, 2022 @12:41PM (#29878453)
Personally I think he did it to prove a point. IIRC he made a post last year where he said he would no longer be developing software for companies to use for free. This gripe is that he does all this work for free and companies then use his code to make money and do not contribute back to the ecosystem.

IMO this was not the most graceful way to make the point, but at the end of the day it's his project, his code. If you want the expectation of it always working, then pay him. Don't bitch and moan that the old man giving out free bread on the steps isn't here this morning.

Re:What NPM should do to stop a new colors attack by peoplefromibiza on Monday January 10, 2022 @02:34PM (#29880551)
> he made a post last year where he said he would no longer be developing software for companies to use for free

I understand the sentiment, but why chose MIT license then?

GPL would be the right choice if one wants to stop companies profiting from free work without giving anything back.

Re:What NPM should do to stop a new colors attack by selfhoster11 on Monday January 10, 2022 @04:18PM (#29882690)
Perhaps by the time he started feeling this way, it was too late to relicense? Megacorps would just fork from a pre-GPL release and carry on.
Re:What NPM should do to stop a new colors attack by peoplefromibiza on Monday January 10, 2022 @04:29PM (#29882859)
that's my understansing as well.

I'm not judging the author here, but on one hand I understand the frustration, on the other hand the package probably owes its popularity in part to its very permissive license.

Anyway, a fork maintained by the companies that use the package would still be a better outcome than keep working for them for free (or remove the package entirely).

Re:What NPM should do to stop a new colors attack by accoil on Monday January 10, 2022 @04:15PM (#29882632)
Would GPL help though? It's a library used by tests, not part of the end product distributed to users.
Re:What NPM should do to stop a new colors attack by peoplefromibiza on Monday January 10, 2022 @04:24PM (#29882786)
I don't know in this case but in general a GPL fork must stay GPL and, AFAIUI, importing a GPL package in your code it's similar to linking to it, so if the code that uses your GPL package is published (on GH for example) that could be considered redistribution. Not sure about the legalities but it could create enough friction to keep companies not willing to contribute away.
Re:What NPM should do to stop a new colors attack by accoil on Monday January 10, 2022 @05:10PM (#29883477)
I guess I'm thinking more in terms of faker, which I believe was a library for creating test data. Makes me wonder if licenses matter much for tools that are never intended to be included in the final distribution.

Internal changes aren't going to be detectable, so it feels like the best you can hope for is that they don't want the maintenance burden of a patch set on top of your project. At that point it's not much different than MIT.

That said, AGPL would scare off most companies :p

Re:What NPM should do to stop a new colors attack by jraph on Monday January 10, 2022 @03:43PM (#29882063)
Yes, especially GPLv3. Still open source, and companies avoid it.
Re:What NPM should do to stop a new colors attack by watwut on Monday January 10, 2022 @06:02PM (#29884255)
License is pretty good starting point for that. Or, simply making closed source only as overwhelming majority of programmers do.

The whole "contributing to open source" while effectively saying "I think open source should not exist and is rip of" makes no sense in world where literally nothing forces you to create open source.

Re:What NPM should do to stop a new colors attack by ziggus on Monday January 10, 2022 @12:31PM (#29878308)
"...it isn't legal to maliciously add an infinite-loop to a library that you know is used by other companies"

Um, what?

Re:What NPM should do to stop a new colors attack by Isthatablackgsd on Monday January 10, 2022 @12:40PM (#29878436)
> No, it isn't legal to maliciously add an infinite-loop to a library that you know is used by other companies.

Could you cite an source for this? Because I got a impression that it "isn't legal" which mean it is not illegal based on your comment. I would assuming you are referring to USA Computer Fraud and Abuse Act?

Re:What NPM should do to stop a new colors attack by rsstack on Monday January 10, 2022 @12:45PM (#29878517)
"18 U.S.C. § 1030(a)(5)(A) knowingly causes the transmission of a program, information, code, or command, and as a result of such conduct, intentionally causes damage without authorization, to a protected computer;"
Re:What NPM should do to stop a new colors attack by Isthatablackgsd on Monday January 10, 2022 @01:00PM (#29878755)
I agree with awinter-py, it will be tricky to use "without authorization" for this. The developer only published the code, that is up to other companies to verify the code and roll with it. If Company A installed the dependency, that could mean Company A "authorized" the code because they pulled the dependency to their system. So not sure how CFAA could protect this if the Company A proceed to download the code which in turn that the code are authorized. It is their responsibility to audit and verify the code before incorporating into their software.
Re:What NPM should do to stop a new colors attack by DangitBobby on Monday January 10, 2022 @09:26PM (#29886522)
Is it considered "authorized" if I knowingly visit a website but did not realize it would execute malicious JavaScript on my machine? Anyone who unknowingly installed this malicious package in their project is having that same problem.
Re:What NPM should do to stop a new colors attack by awinter-py on Monday January 10, 2022 @12:52PM (#29878619)
'without authorization' here is going to be tricky. author probably did have authorization to both github + npm? and didn't knowingly cause transmission to anywhere else? the rest of the steps were pull, not push.
Re:What NPM should do to stop a new colors attack by rsstack on Monday January 10, 2022 @01:00PM (#29878743)
If we're honest about the US justice system, this would be a subjective decision decided by non-technological lawyers, jurors, and judges. The purposeful malicious intent is working hard against his stance.
Re:What NPM should do to stop a new colors attack by phkahler on Monday January 10, 2022 @01:20PM (#29879068)
>> The purposeful malicious intent is working hard against his stance.

OK, but should cloud providers similarly be held accountable for screwing their customers through negligent acts - to come full circle, like pulling these updates without doing any checks or QC?

Re:What NPM should do to stop a new colors attack by otterley on Monday January 10, 2022 @03:45PM (#29882113)
Although it's a different area of law, product-defect liability attaches to all actors in the "stream of commerce" stretching end-to-end from the manufacturer to the retailer.
Re:What NPM should do to stop a new colors attack by awinter-py on Monday January 10, 2022 @02:04PM (#29879912)
scotus in van buren (2020) let off a cop who was selling LPR searches for cash so in theory the days of aggressive interpretations are over? eff called it a 'victory for security researchers', though it's probably too soon to say whether it's that or just a victory for people selling LPR data
Re:What NPM should do to stop a new colors attack by rsstack on Monday January 10, 2022 @03:31PM (#29881819)
The precedent doesn't apply. The SCOTUS interpreted (and in effect, defined) that the "authorized access" in 18 U.S.C. § 1030(a)(2) can't be qualified and limited to less access. If I'm authorized to see usernames, and due to light hacking I can also see emails - I'm n̵o̵t̵ ̵a̵ ̵c̵r̵i̵m̵i̵n̵a̵l̵ maybe a criminal (EDITED). If I'm authorized to check license plates for some reasons, and despite employer policy I checked license plates for some other reasons - I'm not a criminal.

The issue we're discussing here is based on 18 U.S.C. § 1030(a)(5) (note the last digit) and "authorized access" is not mentioned there at all. This section deals with damage and not access.

Re:What NPM should do to stop a new colors attack by awinter-py on Monday January 10, 2022 @04:30PM (#29882887)
hmm, not really my area. This coverage of van buren seems to show the court trying to make 'authorization' agree in meaning in different parts of (a)(2)?

https://www.natlawreview.com/article/supreme-court-ends-long...

Re:What NPM should do to stop a new colors attack by rsstack on Monday January 10, 2022 @04:40PM (#29883031)
This incident has nothing to do with (a)(2) as Marak didn't _access_ any system. The only sections violated are (a)(5) (_knowingly damaging_ a system) and, arguably, (a)(7) (extortion). (a)(7) is a lot harder to argue though as his extortion attempt doesn't have a named target or an explicit demand and is generally... lame.

Edit: Note that I'm seeing this the same as a virus, not the same as a data-extraction hack.

[dead]
Re:What NPM should do to stop a new colors attack by site-packages1 on Monday January 10, 2022 @01:25PM (#29879152)
He did breach basic ethics and standards of professional conduct by his actions, for sure. I would lean against considering what he did illegal, but I think there is an argument to be made that it would be illegal under the CFAA.
Re:What NPM should do to stop a new colors attack by salawat on Monday January 10, 2022 @02:34PM (#29880546)
No he didn't, what are you smoking?

It is on the person using code to do due diligence to ensure that any code pulled down in an update is good to utilize. You're seeing an implicit obligation where there has never been one.

In general, most just have the integrity, empathy and detachment to not do what he did, however, any programmer/developer who doesn't have a checklist item of "audit that code" before updates is committing an aggriegious breach of professional ethics;as this is the exact circumstance that everyone should be on the lookout for.

Everyone here assuming there is an obligation on Marak's part to continue to provide an interface in a non-molested form for their convenience are part of the problem. You should have mirrored, or paid the man.

Re:What NPM should do to stop a new colors attack by justupvoting on Monday January 10, 2022 @12:36PM (#29878373)
Rational motives can produce irrational actions, and do so somewhat reliably.
Re:What NPM should do to stop a new colors attack by netr0ute on Monday January 10, 2022 @12:35PM (#29878356)
It can't be illegal if the software is provided as-is without any warranty as most OSS licenses do.
Re:What NPM should do to stop a new colors attack by rsstack on Monday January 10, 2022 @12:37PM (#29878378)
I'll leave it as an exercise for the reader to understand the difference between "I am not liable if I have a bug that ruins your production environment" and "I am not liable if I maliciously introduce a fatal bug knowingly into your production environment".
Re:What NPM should do to stop a new colors attack by phkahler on Monday January 10, 2022 @01:23PM (#29879118)
But he didn't introduce it into any particular production environment.

For fucks sake, people need to pin dependencies to a known good version at the very least.

Re:What NPM should do to stop a new colors attack by cecilpl2 on Monday January 10, 2022 @04:00PM (#29882356)
Of course he did. Intent matters, and this was a reasonably foreseen consequence of the way the system is set up.

He knew how npm works and he knew the implication of adding that code is that hundreds of libraries and production systems would automatically upgrade and install it.

In fact, the whole point of what he did was to introduce the code into production environments.

Re:What NPM should do to stop a new colors attack by jessaustin on Monday January 10, 2022 @10:18PM (#29887006)
Raise your hand if you pull directly from the internet into production without testing!

<no hands raised>

How can we claim he did anything to production if no one will admit they're dumb enough to push this latest version without testing it?

Re:What NPM should do to stop a new colors attack by fulafel on Monday January 10, 2022 @01:00PM (#29878750)
Most of those (malice, who introduced it to your environment, fatal bug) seem contestable, even if we grant for the purpose of argument that the as-is disclaimer does not cover all cases.
Re:What NPM should do to stop a new colors attack by rsstack on Monday January 10, 2022 @01:02PM (#29878788)
Did you see the commit before it was deleted? I'd love to see a lawyer claiming anything else.
Re:What NPM should do to stop a new colors attack by fulafel on Monday January 10, 2022 @01:07PM (#29878868)
Which of the 3 claims are you referring to?

The commit is here as far as i know, not deleted: https://github.com/Marak/colors.js/commit/074a0f8ed0c31c35d1...

Re:What NPM should do to stop a new colors attack by WJW on Monday January 10, 2022 @01:26PM (#29879164)
Any reasonable expert in the field will testify that it is not possible to write an infinite loop like that unintentionally.
Re:What NPM should do to stop a new colors attack by fulafel on Monday January 10, 2022 @03:35PM (#29881914)
The commit had a comment to the effect of being test / toy code not meant to be put into a release. I don't think a claim of randomly producing the snippet would be put forward in the hypothetical court case. Then there's the question of malice vs some other motive of expression in looping and printing some ASCII / zalgo art in your own terminal art lib.
Re:What NPM should do to stop a new colors attack by salawat on Monday January 10, 2022 @02:39PM (#29880656)
Any reasonable expert in the field will tell you you don't plug an auto-updating dependency into production. Marak wrote code. You, (the consumer), pulled, and deployed it without due diligence. That is entirely on you.

Not one person is obligated to keep your crap working except you. This has really outed all the people who really should know better.

Re:What NPM should do to stop a new colors attack by marwis on Monday January 10, 2022 @04:32PM (#29882928)
If you put a bomb in a box and attach a button with a note that the button is provided as-is and author disclaims any liability, then leave it in public place and someone presses it, do you think you will not be found liable?
Re:What NPM should do to stop a new colors attack by LegitShady on Monday January 10, 2022 @09:53PM (#29886775)
if you build a car oitside in public view and someome copies it and crashes are you liable?

tbis ismt a bomb in a box its his project car you copied without any warranty or.gurantee of stability.

Re:What NPM should do to stop a new colors attack by MattPalmer1086 on Monday January 10, 2022 @07:09PM (#29885099)
No, he has no civil liability to the extent permitted by law, as the license states. He basically can't be sued.

That's different to criminal liability.

Re:What NPM should do to stop a new colors attack by Supermancho on Monday January 10, 2022 @12:38PM (#29878404)
It could be illegal (regardless of warranty or license), but it happens to not be in most of the US.
Re:What NPM should do to stop a new colors attack by Sebguer on Monday January 10, 2022 @12:20PM (#29878105)
His twitter is very weird - there's a bunch of Ghislaine Maxwell / Aaron Swartz conspiracy theories, which he somehow ties to GamerGate.
Re:What NPM should do to stop a new colors attack by vorpalhex on Monday January 10, 2022 @12:26PM (#29878228)
My mental model for "people who believe in conspiracy theories" has changed since I lost a few friends deep into them.

I think it's a refuge for distressed people. Some belief that unconnected terrible events are somehow all controlled and "part of the plan".

I still don't get it and likely never will, but it at least aligns with anecdotal cases I've experienced of seemingly normal people going a bit off.

Re:What NPM should do to stop a new colors attack by rhcom2 on Monday January 10, 2022 @12:35PM (#29878352)
I never understood 9/11 truthers until someone explained it that it was more comforting to at least believe someone was pulling the strings in the background because at least there was a plan, even if it was sinister, compared to accepting a militarily inferior enemy half way across the world can upend everything about your life seemingly randomly.
Re:What NPM should do to stop a new colors attack by ushakov on Monday January 10, 2022 @12:42PM (#29878457)
IMHO the whole point of 9/11 was to make Americans feel insecure and distrust their government
Re:What NPM should do to stop a new colors attack by otterley on Monday January 10, 2022 @03:49PM (#29882175)
Go pick up a copy of "Through our Enemies' Eyes." It's an account from a CIA agent who did extensive research on the events and circumstances that led up to 9/11 and the actors involved. His conclusion: It's not really about that at all; the answers are much more personal than that.
Re:What NPM should do to stop a new colors attack by o_m on Monday January 10, 2022 @04:31PM (#29882893)
There was a plan, and it was by Osama Bin Laden. But he was naive. He wanted the American people to question themselves why something like this would happen to them, then find out about all the horrible things USA has done to other nations. It was never about hating freedom.
Re:What NPM should do to stop a new colors attack by watwut on Monday January 10, 2022 @06:05PM (#29884294)
I don't understand how the former is more comforting. Military inferior enemy with one successful attack is preferable. It is safer the sinister plan inside.
Re:What NPM should do to stop a new colors attack by phkahler on Monday January 10, 2022 @01:35PM (#29879327)
Observing a schizophrenic I knew made me realize people high in "intolerance of uncertainty" can probably discard reality checking to arrive at a firm conclusion. I googled that and found a psych paper claiming schizophrenics indeed tend toward high intolerance for uncertainty. It was a relatively new finding.
Re:What NPM should do to stop a new colors attack by savanaly on Monday January 10, 2022 @02:11PM (#29880041)
Astral Codex Ten posited that conspiracy theories are part of the Epistemic Minor Leagues [0]. In other words a way for people to flex the part of their brain that doing real research and discovery stimulates even if they don't feel they can belong to or contribute to "regular" intellectual activity like academic research.

[0] https://astralcodexten.substack.com/p/epistemic-minor-league...

[dead]
Re:What NPM should do to stop a new colors attack by slowmovintarget on Monday January 10, 2022 @12:43PM (#29878485)
I don't think Trump believes in conspiracies, generally speaking. I think he simply finds them useful for manipulating large groups of people. I could certainly be mistaken.
Re:What NPM should do to stop a new colors attack by ushakov on Monday January 10, 2022 @12:49PM (#29878578)
i don't think he does either

plays along on the conspiracies as long it benefits him and shows him in good light

his psychopathy is a level beyond those of conspiracy believers

[dead]
Re:What NPM should do to stop a new colors attack by vorpalhex on Monday January 10, 2022 @12:39PM (#29878419)
> Downvotes in lieu of logical argument in 3...2...

If you want a logical rebuttal, you have to make a logical argument, and not

> At least 70-80% of 'conspiracy theories' are true. Yes, even many of the 'crazy' ones.

Re:What NPM should do to stop a new colors attack by vadansky on Monday January 10, 2022 @12:47PM (#29878531)
I hate this position. Imagine someone ranting about MKULTRA if the CIA never acknowledged it. Imagine it was just some papers on the internet with no providence. I like to think of it as a matter of diversity of though. We need the "crazy" people to explore the really unlikely bizarre scenarios that MIGHT be true that most mainstream people will never even humor. At the end of the day reality is stranger then fiction.
Re:What NPM should do to stop a new colors attack by Shish2k on Monday January 10, 2022 @01:43PM (#29879471)
Sure, 1% of conspiracy theories turn out to have some truth to them — but on the whole, if there’s no way of knowing in-advance which ones those are, I don’t know if “engage with all the conspiracy theories, spend time and energy attacking fictional problems and innocent people” is a better response than “reject all the conspiracy theories, spend time and energy on definitely-real problems, allow some dodgy organisations to get away with stuff”...
Re:What NPM should do to stop a new colors attack by jaywalk on Monday January 10, 2022 @03:50PM (#29882187)
You also have the conspiracy theory that says that the most outlandish conspiracy theories are amplified much more than they naturally would be in an attempt to discredit all conspiracy theories. Which I do believe, myself.
Re:What NPM should do to stop a new colors attack by tzs on Monday January 10, 2022 @01:50PM (#29879615)
The "crazy" people make it less likely that the bizarre scenarios that are real will actually be exposed, because the crazy people that do on rare occasions get one right usually are at the same time ranting about a dozen other things that actually are completely bonkers.

For instance if someone says they were abducted by aliens (from space), but they also say that COVID was designed by Gates and Fauci when they were roommates at Princeton to depopulate the world [1], and that Betty White was using Hollywood to promote the vast secret satanist pedophile network that traffics millions of US children each year, while her sister Barbara Bush did similar in the government, all at the behest of their father the satanist Aleister Crowley [2], and that in early January 2021 the military arrested Biden, Harris, Pelosi, Schumer, Democratic governors, Fauci, Gates, etc and took them to Gitmo where they were tried and executed, and restored Trump to the Presidency but are using robots and actors to make it look like all those dead people are still running things because they don't want to tip off the people running the underground adrenochrome harvesting operations until the children have been rescued [3], I'm not going to take their alien abduction seriously.

If on the other hand Neil deGrasse Tyson said he was abducted by aliens I'd take it seriously. I wouldn't necessarily believe he was actually abducted by aliens, but I'd believe there was a high probability that he had a good reason to believe he was, and that would be something worth investigating.

[1] Yes, there are people who believe that, and yes, they really say it was at Princeton even though neither of them went to Princeton.

[2] That started appearing on fringe sites shortly after Betty White's recent death.

[3] Another real conspiracy theory.

Re:What NPM should do to stop a new colors attack by tzs on Monday January 10, 2022 @04:15PM (#29882639)
Oops...I just realized alien abduction was a bad example, because it is not really in the same category as the other things I used for the crazy person's beliefs.

Those other things all involve belief in things they have been told but have not personally experienced. The alien abduction claim would be a claim that they have personally experienced alien abduction.

Re:What NPM should do to stop a new colors attack by vorpalhex on Monday January 10, 2022 @12:54PM (#29878655)
Everyone has some non-orthodox beliefs. I am sure I'm not exempt.

I'm not trying to describe someone who has a few odd beliefs, especially if they know they are a bit odd and can entertain good arguments.

I'm trying to describe where someone descends into the whole web of inter-related beliefs and accepts them with a religious determination, resisting even the suggestion they could be wrong.

Re:What NPM should do to stop a new colors attack by ushakov on Monday January 10, 2022 @01:13PM (#29878961)
the problem starts when you start preaching your beliefs onto others
Re:What NPM should do to stop a new colors attack by jamal-kumar on Monday January 10, 2022 @12:24PM (#29878184)
I was about to point out the fact that all this guy's motivations seem to be mental illness YOLO and that it seems he recently lost his job. Kind of like the movie "falling down" but even more petty somehow
Re:What NPM should do to stop a new colors attack by watwut on Monday January 10, 2022 @05:58PM (#29884179)
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.theverge.com/platform/amp/2...

Seems like he had series of odd statements around the same time: liberty, Aaron Schwarts and some such.

Overall it sounded to me more like breakdown then anything else.

Re:What NPM should do to stop a new colors attack by chaostheory on Monday January 10, 2022 @09:17PM (#29886419)
I'm pretty certain there is mental illness involved when he's making bombs

https://abc7ny.com/suspicious-package-queens-astoria-fire/64...

Re:What NPM should do to stop a new colors attack by phkahler on Monday January 10, 2022 @01:11PM (#29878934)
>> On his Twitter Marak is claiming [1] that GitHub/NPM have suspended his account

Interesting. Shouldn't they also block access to the repositories? Oh right, that would hurt their other users. This makes it clear who thinks they own code and who works for them for free.

Re:What NPM should do to stop a new colors attack by okl on Monday January 10, 2022 @12:19PM (#29878075)
Well fuck them. It's his code, he should be able to do with it whatever he wants.
Re:What NPM should do to stop a new colors attack by smt88 on Monday January 10, 2022 @12:26PM (#29878214)
If a major FOSS Linux distro decided to add a virus to their latest release, would you say the same thing?

It certainly isn't "his code" anyway. Many people contributed to it with the good-faith belief that he would not use it as a Trojan horse.

Re:What NPM should do to stop a new colors attack by okl on Monday January 10, 2022 @12:41PM (#29878450)
Using someone's code (for free) doesn't mean you can dictate terms to them.
Re:What NPM should do to stop a new colors attack by WJW on Monday January 10, 2022 @01:19PM (#29879063)
Nobody is forcing them to rewrite it or anything. Github canceled his account because knowingly posting malicious software is against the TOS, and it is not difficult to argue that putting infinite loops in the startup code of all your users is malicious. He still has the code on his computer to do whatever he pleases with. The rest of the world is just looking at it askew and calculating the odds something like this is going to happen again and what they should do about it. If you are going to be a dick to your users you should not be surprised that they will refuse to use your software afterwards.

In a way, it is kinda sad that this behavior drives him away from the financial security he so seemed to crave. "Yes I just caused your dev team to do hotfixes during the weekend and cost you XYZ dollars in downtime, can I have a senior dev position now plz" is not a very convincing line when interviewing.

Re:What NPM should do to stop a new colors attack by okl on Monday January 10, 2022 @01:31PM (#29879246)
I agree that it was a dick move from his side. Fork his project, or use an older version. I am not convinced that him breaking his code is something that ought to be punished.

GitHub gets the right to close their hand while Marak doesn't.

Re:What NPM should do to stop a new colors attack by watwut on Monday January 10, 2022 @06:09PM (#29884343)
I see it more as attempt to protect against another similar action. Not so much to punish as in "teach him" or "get revenge".
Re:What NPM should do to stop a new colors attack by starwind on Monday January 10, 2022 @01:04PM (#29878828)
If I voluntarily share my lunch with someone at work, I can't poison it even though they got free food. Even if someone at work is stealing my lunch, I can't poison it.

We have a right to basic safety even in situations we aren't paying for things. That extends to the digital world. You can't put malware in your open-source project without a giant disclaimer "THIS IS MALWARE. USE ONLY FOR RESEARCH PURPOSES" or something like that

Re:What NPM should do to stop a new colors attack by phkahler on Monday January 10, 2022 @01:38PM (#29879379)
>> . That extends to the digital world. You can't put malware in your open-source project without a giant disclaimer "THIS IS MALWARE. USE ONLY FOR RESEARCH PURPOSES" or something like that

sourceforge?

Re:What NPM should do to stop a new colors attack by salawat on Monday January 10, 2022 @02:48PM (#29880864)
You do not have a right to basic safety when you divest yourself of basic precautions any reasonable actor would have taken. A reasonable actor checks new code pulled down to ensure it actually works. You accept the risk integrating in a stranger's code without mirroring/audit.
Re:What NPM should do to stop a new colors attack by wtallis on Tuesday January 11, 2022 @01:38AM (#29888333)
The legal profession tends to take a more permissive stance when determining the limits of what's "reasonable", as can be seen from how the phrase "moron in a hurry" has become a term of art.
Re:What NPM should do to stop a new colors attack by torstenvl on Monday January 10, 2022 @02:07PM (#29879955)
My understanding is that he wasn't voluntarily sharing it. In November he pretty clearly told people to fork his code and move off his repository, and not to rely on his packages anymore. He used a graphic clearly warning of an impending "strike."

GitHub Post: https://archive.fo/9fwGz

HN Discussion: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25032105&p=2

That doesn't make it not a dick move. But let's not pretend they still had permission to remote load directly from his repo. If I own a personal storage facility and I decide to demolish it, and I say months in advance for everyone to take their stuff out and store it somewhere else, and then I demolish it and people lose their property... the harmed individuals are not faultless.

Would the professional and responsible thing to do be to announce a cut-off date explicitly and make very clear that Bad Things were going to happen if you didn't stop relying on him? Yes, 100%, and I have a low opinion of him for not doing so.

However, while what he did was bad, it isn't quite as bad, in my opinion, as people are making it out to be.

Re:What NPM should do to stop a new colors attack by simlevesque on Monday January 10, 2022 @12:51PM (#29878611)
Could you please tell me how to avoid ever using your code ?
Re:What NPM should do to stop a new colors attack by okl on Monday January 10, 2022 @01:40PM (#29879415)
> If a major FOSS Linux distro decided to add a virus to their latest release, would you say the same thing?

https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2012/10/privacy-ubuntu-1210-am...

Re:What NPM should do to stop a new colors attack by Isthatablackgsd on Monday January 10, 2022 @12:50PM (#29878584)
> Well fuck them. It's his code, he should be able to do with it whatever he wants.

He can do whatever he wants with his codes. It didn't means that private companies have to accept that due to liabilities. He is using an private company platform to publish his code which could make the company liable for him. By removing or suspending his account, the liability will be minimized and shift it to the developer. If the private company keep it in their system and widely available for distribution, other companies that got hit by this malicious code could have a standing to sue the hosting private company for allowing the code to be published. Imagine thousand companies have a lawsuit against the hosting company. So the hosting private company don't want to be liable for this and shutting off the account is their best interest to keep the liability off on them.

Re:What NPM should do to stop a new colors attack by okl on Monday January 10, 2022 @12:53PM (#29878645)
Not different from Google shutting down someone's account, something that's constantly bemoaned on Hacker News.
Re:What NPM should do to stop a new colors attack by Isthatablackgsd on Monday January 10, 2022 @01:06PM (#29878856)
Did Microsoft completely banned this developer from their other services? To my understanding, the developer account is suspended from GitHub. He is not banned from other MS products.

That is the difference. In Google case, Google completely ban on all of their services to those banned users. If they are banned in Gmail, then likely they are banned from Play Store, Workspace, Google Drive, etc (entire Google ecosystem). In this case, Microsoft didn't banned this developers from their other services, it only the developer's GitHub account is suspended without affecting other services that the developers are using.

Re:What NPM should do to stop a new colors attack by okl on Monday January 10, 2022 @01:11PM (#29878923)
How do you know that when you don't know what else he was using his GitHub account for?
Re:What NPM should do to stop a new colors attack by zamadatix on Monday January 10, 2022 @12:37PM (#29878382)
GitHub isn't preventing him from doing what he wants with his code it's just not hosting it for him anymore.
Re:What NPM should do to stop a new colors attack by okl on Monday January 10, 2022 @12:51PM (#29878607)
Instead of the government, we let corporations repress deviants.
Re:What NPM should do to stop a new colors attack by zamadatix on Monday January 10, 2022 @01:09PM (#29878891)
Deviant or not and corporation or not aren't at play. It'd be the same story if you had a video sharing site and didn't want to host my videos because I broke the "no comedy" rules by uploading a skit.
Re:What NPM should do to stop a new colors attack by okl on Monday January 10, 2022 @01:12PM (#29878946)
Exactly.
Re:What NPM should do to stop a new colors attack by zamadatix on Monday January 10, 2022 @01:15PM (#29878990)
Exactly what? The government wasn't involved here so GitHub was allowed to decide what they wanted to host and the author was allowed to do what they want with the code?