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Re:Poll: Which FAANG is the most likely to decline in the ye... by cogman10 on Monday January 03, 2022 @03:26PM (#29786291)
Agreed. What made netflix successful initially was their access to IP. That's going away fast as every IP producer is pushing for their own paid streaming service (which sucks, btw).

With big heavyweights like Disney that own a huge percentage of content having their own services, netflix is really going to struggle being anything more than niche media providers (anime) and their own inhouse media.

If they are lucky, they'll be an HBO style platform. However, the quality of their in-house content has left a lot to be desired. Some is good, but a lot is garbage.

That netflix has technical chops isn't going to be a saving grace. Rather, it will mean engineers from netflix will likely be able to secure jobs at other streaming providers.

Re:Poll: Which FAANG is the most likely to decline in the ye... by nr2x on Monday January 03, 2022 @03:50PM (#29786689)
That said, until other streaming services entered the scene I didn't appreciate exactly how good Netflix's engineering is. The only service comparable is YouTube, but even then, Netflix has much higher quality. HBO Max has a great content library, but barely works.
Re:Poll: Which FAANG is the most likely to decline in the ye... by xyzzy_plugh on Monday January 03, 2022 @04:00PM (#29786805)
> I didn't appreciate exactly how good Netflix's engineering is.

This is poignant as even the shittiest streaming service can dominate with the right IP. Content is king, engineering quality is not a differentiator.

Because of this, Netflix is ripe for disruption, which we've been witnessing creep up slowly over the last decade.

Netflix is easily the first of my several subscriptions to hit the chopping block, should it come to that.

Re:Poll: Which FAANG is the most likely to decline in the ye... by dageshi on Monday January 03, 2022 @04:39PM (#29787320)
If you follow the ratings (granted the ratings for streaming services are likely not as easy to calculate as network tv), Netflix pretty much dominates top 10 most watched shows every week. It's weaker on Movies but still does pretty well there as well.

If netflix keeps producing content at the rate it is, it won't be long until it has a fairly large back catalogue itself. At the end of the day it's Netflix's core business, whereas for most of the other streaming services it's a side gig.

Re:Poll: Which FAANG is the most likely to decline in the ye... by lostcolony on Monday January 03, 2022 @05:00PM (#29787566)
Yep. Netflix correctly saw that if it was successful at streaming, content holders would be quick to try and cut it out as a middleman. They've had their sight on being a content producer since very early on, and have been extremely successful at it. There are many people out there who can only afford a few streaming services, and Netflix remains a top choice to hold, despite the fact they license comparatively little top tier US content any more.
Re:Poll: Which FAANG is the most likely to decline in the ye... by dlainhart on Monday January 03, 2022 @05:01PM (#29787574)
Netflix can calculate their equivalent to Nielsen ratings preposterously easy and with far more accuracy and they can get far more data than Nielsen will ever be able to produce for anyone.
Re:Poll: Which FAANG is the most likely to decline in the ye... by ghaff on Monday January 03, 2022 @05:28PM (#29787891)
So?

The reasons the networks cared about the Nielsens so much was that they directly translated into how much they could charge for a 30 second ad block.

Netflix obviously does care about how many people are watching its shows. If no one is watching licensed content they won't renew licenses on it or similar content. If a new show isn't doing well and doesn't have passionate fans, they'll cancel it. (Possibly faster than a network would have.)

But they only care about how many people are watching something to the degree it increases the number of people subscribing which is a correlation that is harder to measure.

Re:Poll: Which FAANG is the most likely to decline in the ye... by dageshi on Monday January 03, 2022 @06:14PM (#29788446)
uh yes, but for the purposes of this discussion unless you can compare them vs the watch times of other services that's not very useful. So far as I know Netflix and nobody else releases those numbers so they have to be estimated.
Re:Poll: Which FAANG is the most likely to decline in the ye... by Lamad123 on Monday January 03, 2022 @04:48PM (#29787436)
WTF is this 'IP' that y'all keep bouncing around?
Re:Poll: Which FAANG is the most likely to decline in the ye... by cogman10 on Monday January 03, 2022 @05:10PM (#29787676)
Intellectual property
Re:Poll: Which FAANG is the most likely to decline in the ye... by cogman10 on Monday January 03, 2022 @04:13PM (#29786990)
No doubt, Netflix has optimized content delivery better than pretty much anyone. They spend all the right time in all the right places to get media the plays well and looks good on pretty much every device and any bitrate. They are leaders in video codecs and encoding.

Everyone else have been learning, slowly, the lessons Netflix learned years ago.

Is anyone else even doing a program like OpenConnect? https://openconnect.netflix.com/en/

That's the sort of stuff that really sets netflix apart from the competition.

All that said, IMO, the average consumer doesn't really care about technical quality of the content, they care about the catalog.

Re:Poll: Which FAANG is the most likely to decline in the ye... by fhd2 on Monday January 03, 2022 @07:30PM (#29789215)
Pretty subjective, but I find Disney+ quite superior to Netflix in both quality of the streaming and UX - two areas I'm surprised a "non-tech company" can win in. Seems to me like the tech part (anything but the content, really) is actually a commodity already.
Re:Poll: Which FAANG is the most likely to decline in the ye... by addicted on Monday January 03, 2022 @04:37PM (#29787294)
Have you used HBO Max recently? Aside from the first month or so it’s been nearly flawless for me across a variety of platforms (Roku/Chromecast/iPhone).

And the first month pains were very clearly because it was rushed out to time it with the release of certain IPs during the pandemic.

Re:Poll: Which FAANG is the most likely to decline in the ye... by mmcconnell1618 on Monday January 03, 2022 @04:51PM (#29787479)
HBO Max on Apple TV is a terrible experience. The app doesn't appear to use the standard playback and navigation functions in most other Apple TV apps so you get unintuitive scrubbing behavior and inconsistent searching. Also, the app signs me out on a regular basis at random intervals. When this happens, you can still browse shows and click play but at that point you're interrupted with a "buy HBO Max" screen which is totally confusing. You have to manually navigate to the account, sign out, then sign back in and re-find the one episode you wanted to play.
Re:Poll: Which FAANG is the most likely to decline in the ye... by nr2x on Monday January 03, 2022 @09:28PM (#29790486)
To be fair, Apple TV is a pretty terrible experience, especially regarding them trying to force users to give Tim Apple a cut of streaming subscriptions.
Re:Poll: Which FAANG is the most likely to decline in the ye... by dwighttk on Saturday January 08, 2022 @08:27AM (#29851453)
Huh… hasn’t been terrible in my experience, but I’ve never been forced to give Tim Apple a cut of my streaming subscriptions.
Re:Poll: Which FAANG is the most likely to decline in the ye... by nr2x on Monday January 03, 2022 @08:28PM (#29789894)
Use it regularly, and nearly always wish same content was on Netflix due to really awful compression artifacts I never see on Netflix.
Re:Poll: Which FAANG is the most likely to decline in the ye... by HWR_14 on Monday January 03, 2022 @04:57PM (#29787534)
They still don't have a way to turn off auto play for the next episode. That's a basic feature and they're missing it.
Re:Poll: Which FAANG is the most likely to decline in the ye... by ozim on Monday January 03, 2022 @04:29PM (#29787204)
They still have a chance because they had quite a success on getting non-US IP like "Money Heist" and "Squid Game".

I believe there are loads of production companies from all over the world willing to sell their productions to Netflix after those successes.

Producers in non English speaking countries will usually not have enough funding to promote all over the world or even in US.

I think Disney and HBO are quite stuck in approach where they sell rights and shows to other countries.

Re:Poll: Which FAANG is the most likely to decline in the ye... by RussianCow on Monday January 03, 2022 @03:56PM (#29786748)
> With big heavyweights like Disney that own a huge percentage of content having their own services, netflix is really going to struggle being anything more than niche media providers (anime) and their own inhouse media.

The thing is, they now pump out their own content quickly enough that they don't need anyone else's anymore, and as I understand it, that was always their goal. I imagine most of the TV-watching population (myself included) is okay with mediocre shows/movies, and Netflix has enough content that you're unlikely to completely run out of stuff to watch on their platform.

What Netflix is currently lacking is big blockbuster movies with well-known actors, but even that is changing. (See: Red Notice, Army of the Dead, Bird Box, etc.)

Re:Poll: Which FAANG is the most likely to decline in the ye... by 7thaccount on Monday January 03, 2022 @04:27PM (#29787176)
The Witcher series has been pretty successful. I wish they did more like that. You can only do so many big box shows though.
Re:Poll: Which FAANG is the most likely to decline in the ye... by ghaff on Monday January 03, 2022 @04:35PM (#29787271)
>That netflix has technical chops isn't going to be a saving grace. Rather, it will mean engineers from netflix will likely be able to secure jobs at other streaming providers.

Presumably it also means that there's no reason for Netflix to be paying absolute top of the heap salaries for engineering talent. And I assume companies like Disney mostly don't and won't.

Re:Poll: Which FAANG is the most likely to decline in the ye... by devmunchies on Monday January 03, 2022 @04:47PM (#29787420)
I'm surprised Netflix hasn't been buying IP owners or aggressively expanding into other entertainment channels. Imagine if they straight up acquired Nintendo (or a large part of it), the amount of movies + series they could produce (zelda series like the witcher, donkey kong animated series for kids, metroid prime series for adults, star fox, etc)
Re:Poll: Which FAANG is the most likely to decline in the ye... by HWR_14 on Monday January 03, 2022 @05:02PM (#29787596)
Iirc, Nintendo has too many large shareholders to ever be acquireable. How they let Disney and Amazon purchase Marvel, Star Wars and Paramount for around 5 billion a piece without jumping in I'll never understand.
Re:Poll: Which FAANG is the most likely to decline in the ye... by cstejerean on Monday January 03, 2022 @05:49PM (#29788157)
Although I don’t think that the Marvel IP would have been as valuable in Netflix’s hands. Compare all of the early Marvel shows on Netflix compared to what Disney has done with the MCU.
Re:Poll: Which FAANG is the most likely to decline in the ye... by webmaven on Tuesday January 04, 2022 @01:29PM (#29798150)
> Although I don’t think that the Marvel IP would have been as valuable in Netflix’s hands. Compare all of the early Marvel shows on Netflix compared to what Disney has done with the MCU.

I'm not sure what you're comparing. Netflix's Jessica Jones, Daredevil, and Luke Cage were standouts. WandaVision and Loki are certainly flashier, but are they really better shows?

Re:Poll: Which FAANG is the most likely to decline in the ye... by cstejerean on Tuesday January 04, 2022 @05:59PM (#29802076)
I’m not saying those shows weren’t good, just that Disney has monetized the Marvel brand really well with a long streak of movies that are printing money, and sure a few shows to promote their streaming service.

4 out for the top 5 grossing movies of all time for Disney (adjusted for inflation) are Marvel IP. By comparison none of the Marvel shows on Netflix have been a commercial hit for Netflix. Looking at the list of most watched Netflix shows none of those make the cut.

Basically Disney is well suited to turn Marvel IP into dollars and Netflix just wasn’t.

Re:Poll: Which FAANG is the most likely to decline in the ye... by webmaven on Wednesday January 05, 2022 @03:12PM (#29814295)
> Basically Disney is well suited to turn Marvel IP into dollars and Netflix just wasn’t.

Oh. Well, I can't argue with that, especially since Netflix almost certainly never had the necessary rights to develop a revenue stream from merchandising. There is probably no other company on Earth better suited to turning IP into dollars than Disney, especially since they've acquired Pixar, Lucasfilm, Jim Henson, Marvel, etc. Netflix has only started trying to make tentpole 'blockbuster' (irony intended) movies in the past few years.

Re:Poll: Which FAANG is the most likely to decline in the ye... by dwighttk on Saturday January 08, 2022 @08:32AM (#29851501)
I’m sort of on board with your argument, but might it have been different if Netflix owned Marvel instead of having a license to make a few shows?

Probably not and that is why they didn’t bid, and the Netflix execs are in a better position to know than us… but I think the comparison is a little tilted against Netflix at least.

Re:Poll: Which FAANG is the most likely to decline in the ye... by HWR_14 on Monday January 03, 2022 @05:59PM (#29788281)
It may or may not have been as valuable, but Netflix could still have used it to generate tons of content. It still would have been a smart buy.
Re:Poll: Which FAANG is the most likely to decline in the ye... by midasuni on Monday January 03, 2022 @05:29PM (#29787893)
And back catalogue stuff too. Amazon bought MGM, something netflix should have done. Paramount is launching its own service rather than Netflix buying them.
Re:Poll: Which FAANG is the most likely to decline in the ye... by mr_toad on Tuesday January 04, 2022 @06:04AM (#29793546)
> I'm surprised Netflix hasn't been buying IP owners

I imagine they had to pay for the IP for The Witcher and Altered Carbon.

Re:Poll: Which FAANG is the most likely to decline in the ye... by dwighttk on Saturday January 08, 2022 @08:34AM (#29851514)
I’m thinking the comment referred to ip owners with large existing catalogues
Re:Poll: Which FAANG is the most likely to decline in the ye... by mupuff1234 on Monday January 03, 2022 @03:51PM (#29786704)
> Some is good, but a lot is garbage

I suspect that's WAI in their eyes, they're optimizing for eyeballs, not so much for quality.

Re:Poll: Which FAANG is the most likely to decline in the ye... by KarlKemp on Monday January 03, 2022 @04:02PM (#29786831)
I'm not sure there is a difference between these concepts here. The quality Netflix is after isn't highbrow content that feeds pretentiousness but isn't actually watched. It's masterful execution of a craft, which can happen in any genre.

As an example: the original Police Academy movie had both quality and a large audience. The rest of the franchise was increasingly cringy and saw, I assume, declining viewership.

The reason why Netflix should care about quality and not just eyeballs is that it's a leading indicator: Police Academy II may well have had a larger audience, surfing on the coattails of the first installment. But that's not a sustainable strategy, and unlike the producers of Police Academy XI, Netflix can't just leave the husk and find a new home if it ruins its brand.

So for Netflix, it's not just important to get many people to watch something. They also need to come away from the experience with a wish to repeat it. There may well be more to the experience than mere enjoyment, as well: I feel like there is a sense of "quality" I get when watching something that is distinct from my enjoyment, and that I am more likely to remember it, and fondly so, if I find that quality.

All that suggests a few ideas that mere viewership wouldn't: Netflix would try, for example, to keep me from watching something that I end up despising, and especially if I do so because I consider it "low-quality". You can do reality TV even if your audience has more Ivy League credentials than a New England Hospital, but you better make sure it has a chance to become a pop-cultural phenomenon, like, say, a show about interior decorating that neatly fits into a wider trend of minimalism.

Re:Poll: Which FAANG is the most likely to decline in the ye... by ghaff on Monday January 03, 2022 @04:42PM (#29787358)
Netflix needs content which results in the maximum number of subscribers at a given point in time. Which has some correlation to eyeballs but is very different from networks selling ads based literally on eyeballs (and their demographics).

This requires some combination of quality (whatever that means exactly), pop culture relevance (Squid Games), and good enough filler so that less selective viewers don't run out of stuff to watch. Of course, they can program for niches more than traditional broadcast TV did too.