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Re:How Telegram Messenger circumvents Google Translate's API by barnabee on Friday December 31, 2021 @07:07AM (#29747276)
Someone deleted an interesting comment about adversarial interoperability [0]

I’d love to see and give money to a project to create and maintain easy to use and stable “adversarial interoperability” APIs for as many services and products as possible.

Perhaps companies and projects would not often use these directly because of the risks (hopefully some would, though!) but individuals could drop the library or the URL to a server hosting it into their apps to gain extra features.

If standardised, whole open source apps could be built around them that allow querying and analysis of data from services and aggregating and automating using the services including optimising prices, taking advantage of offers, and using undocumented APIs to the users advantage.

Maybe something architected and incentivised like https://thegraph.com/ for adversarial intercom and undocumented APIs. Building as a network of nodes and funding with crypto would make it harder to attack and take down.

[0] https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2019/10/adversarial-interopera...

Re:How Telegram Messenger circumvents Google Translate's API by sdeframond on Friday December 31, 2021 @07:16AM (#29747336)
Do you know Woob ? https://woob.tech/
Re:How Telegram Messenger circumvents Google Translate's API by rakoo on Friday December 31, 2021 @08:34AM (#29747871)
So they finally gave in to the complaints about the name (https://lists.symlink.me/pipermail/weboob/2021-February/0016...). woob is excellent but unfortunately its very existence means there is a problem. Hopefully they will gain visibility and problematic services will adopt standard protocols
Re:How Telegram Messenger circumvents Google Translate's API by bottled_poe on Friday December 31, 2021 @08:57PM (#29754675)
This is very wishful. What is the incentive to enabling content access which bypasses their business (i.e. ad impressions)?
Re:How Telegram Messenger circumvents Google Translate's API by Fnoord on Friday December 31, 2021 @10:01AM (#29748598)
This is nice, and feature rich. Its available in Homebrew, where I was able to try it out (if I ran Nix I'd been able to use nix-shell for such). However, its France and French oriented. Not the world-wide interface I expected it to be. Bands for example, only contains a metal database. Recipes, 5 out of 6 entries is French. Travel, I don't see German or Dutch or UK or Belgian public transport.
Re:How Telegram Messenger circumvents Google Translate's API by deadbunny on Friday December 31, 2021 @07:14PM (#29753969)
I can't speak for Germany/Belgium/NL but we have actual APIs for public transportation in the UK (trains/tube at least, not so sure about buses).
Re:How Telegram Messenger circumvents Google Translate's API by xwolfi on Friday December 31, 2021 @08:26AM (#29747775)
Ahah looking at the logos triggered my frenchness, this things is from the motherland.
Re:How Telegram Messenger circumvents Google Translate's API by igammarays on Friday December 31, 2021 @07:24AM (#29747405)
Holy s*t this is amazing! A set of web-scraper automations!
Re:How Telegram Messenger circumvents Google Translate's API by crtasm on Friday December 31, 2021 @08:21AM (#29747732)
Looks excellent.

"pip3 install woob" succeeds but e.g. "woob config-qt" returns "not a woob command". Are the -qt versions not available via pip? I have python3-pyqt5 installed.

Re:How Telegram Messenger circumvents Google Translate's API by kerneis on Friday December 31, 2021 @08:49AM (#29748011)
Qt applications are maintained and packaged separately:

pip install woob-qt

https://gitlab.com/woob/woob-qt/-/blob/master/INSTALL

Re:How Telegram Messenger circumvents Google Translate's API by crtasm on Friday December 31, 2021 @05:41PM (#29753271)
Thanks, I'll suggest they add that to https://woob.tech/install
Re:How Telegram Messenger circumvents Google Translate's API by danpetrov on Friday December 31, 2021 @07:31AM (#29747447)
Wow that is really cool!
Re:How Telegram Messenger circumvents Google Translate's API by barnabee on Friday December 31, 2021 @11:53AM (#29749821)
Thanks! This looks really cool
Re:How Telegram Messenger circumvents Google Translate's API by PragmaticPulp on Friday December 31, 2021 @08:11AM (#29747671)
> Perhaps companies and projects would not often use these directly because of the risks

If you provide a solution to someone’s problem, it will be used all over the place.

The biggest companies won’t use these things, but plenty of smaller companies and individual programmers without oversight would use them without a second thought, at least until they’re caught.

Telegram is a relatively large business and here they are abusing an API exactly like you suggest.

Re:How Telegram Messenger circumvents Google Translate's API by zackmorris on Friday December 31, 2021 @11:07AM (#29749298)
This is a really good idea!

Along those lines: maybe we could use a middleware pattern for APIs, frameworks, etc where the interface/package would be built as a layer above two or more services.

That way the developer could switch between them at any time, or even failover automatically.

So for example, rather than going onto GitHub to download an SDK for something like Mailgun, you'd download a middleware framework built on Mailgun and Sendgrid.

This pattern could be used to identify vulnerabilities in software at the conceptual level, by helping developers to avoid marrying their code to individual providers like AWS. Some mission critical software could even be certified as using all adversarial interoperability frameworks.

It could even help third party services pull themselves up by their bootstraps, if they get added to one of these middlewares. An instant user base without having to rely on marketing or word of mouth.

And could be used to identify monopolies when there's no middleware for a service.

Re:How Telegram Messenger circumvents Google Translate's API by 3pt14159 on Friday December 31, 2021 @11:32AM (#29749560)
I was advocating for this for years but gave up when I talked to someone at Pager Duty that was just straight out against it. For almost irrational reasons. I kept trying to make the case that for a company like their that literally can't be taken offline without risking huge chunks of the internet why wouldn't they want to run their whole business on an abstracted away platform to, say, switch to Windows if linux had a 0day, etc.

> Too many moving pieces. Too much work.

It still boggles my mind that this is the way we do things. "Patch fast!" Ok cool. That's going to keep working out forever.

Re:How Telegram Messenger circumvents Google Translate's API by barnabee on Friday December 31, 2021 @12:04PM (#29749940)
I totally agree.

I would love to have applications that are more tools than products and weave together these APIs and middlewares, both in querying and visualising, combining, enriching, analysing, filtering etc. data and also taking the output and actioning it.

With the amount of data and services that are now available online we should have superhuman capabilities but the productisation of the internet has left us stuck in company run silos fighting “user journeys”, undocumented APIs and EULAs.

Re:How Telegram Messenger circumvents Google Translate's API by ignoramous on Saturday January 01, 2022 @04:01AM (#29756794)
> Someone deleted an interesting comment about adversarial interoperability

That was me. The comment was rapidly amassing upvotes, which made me feel that not only was the comment preaching to the choir but it had the potential to derail the discussion around the actual issue of Telegram's use of Google's Translate APIs.

Re:How Telegram Messenger circumvents Google Translate's API by novok on Friday December 31, 2021 @07:32PM (#29754107)
I think https://plaid.com 's entire business is pretty much an adversarial interoperability webscraping play for banking. The business exists!
Re:How Telegram Messenger circumvents Google Translate's API by deadbunny on Friday December 31, 2021 @07:26PM (#29754054)
youtube-dl does this for video sites, it works on more than just YouTube despite its name.

teller.io does similar for banks.

I would love to see a coordinated effort along the same lines for things with non public APIs. It is however a huge ask as internal APIs are unstable and constantly changing/actively working against things like this which is a huge amount of work to keep up with.

Re:How Telegram Messenger circumvents Google Translate's API by folex on Friday December 31, 2021 @07:20AM (#29747375)
such APIs could be running on https://fluence.network with an interoperability and composition across different services