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Re:The state of external retina displays by querulous on Monday December 27, 2021 @05:58PM (#29707958)
the problem with the apple xdr display isn't just the price though. it's not a good monitor for a lot of users. it's limited to 60hz, it's response time is really poor, it suffers from really obvious blooming and bleed at high brightness and it has bad off axis color accuracy and brightness. sure, if you care deeply about color accuracy and 6k resolution it's pretty good. these aren't the only metrics on which monitors are judged though

apple does a really poor job of supporting external displays. there's virtually no good options if you want something with high refresh, good latency and reasonable pixel density and color reproduction

Re:The state of external retina displays by BoorishBears on Monday December 27, 2021 @08:45PM (#29709362)
I go into more detail below but I completely disagree with your take.

If anything for most users this thing is amazing (but expensive), and for the few users who were "tricked" into thinking this is a $5000 reference monitor it's not good...

-

Bleed is non-existent, right off the bat. In fact it doesn't make sense it'd have bloom and backlight bleeding, aggressive HDR produces bloom... so the same aggressive HDR would hide BLB.

Bloom is also a complete non-issue for most users. I use this monitor primarily to consume text and casual media... I got weeks at a time before remembering this monitor had HDR enabled full-time when some super thin loading spinner or something appears on a completely black background while the brightness is cranked to max but the room is kind of dark... it essentially takes a torture test to get the FALD to be problematic

Off-axis color accuracy, again, complete non-issue for most users. If I was producing Avatar 2 it might be an issue, but compared to any "normal" monitor it's a complete non-issue, especially when the trade off is exactly 0 backlight bleed, which is 100 times more annoying.

For "most users" there's no better productivity monitor. Even a $20,000 reference monitor would be useless for us since we're not going to be able to drive or configure it...

Re:The state of external retina displays by ksec on Monday December 27, 2021 @07:17PM (#29708638)
Their marketing compared it with Reference Monitor. And if it was anywhere close to Reference Monitor, Pros would actually queue up and buy it.

But it wasn't even close. ( And I am still somewhat pissed off about it)

Re:The state of external retina displays by urthor on Monday December 27, 2021 @06:04PM (#29708031)
Fair enough, I wrote the above knowing absolutely nothing about the Apple's specs. I'm just speaking in generalities.
Re:The state of external retina displays by kbenson on Monday December 27, 2021 @06:40PM (#29708340)
Yes, the issue is not that it's expensive, it's that it doesn't justify that cost (serious question, what's that stand made out of to cost $1000?) If you can get an equivalent (or better) monitor for the same price (or less), then it's not really about spending an extremely generous salary to have better tools, it's about spending it to have a substandard tool that happens to have an Apple name attached to it.

If it's actually the best in enough areas to make it worthwhile, then that's great, and maybe it is worth the cost to some people. Maybe something like the Dell 8k monitor is a better fit for more people in the market for one of these, at a cheaper cost ($4k with a stand), more pixels, and similar feature set (if lacking some named features). Maybe not. I probably don't know enough to accurately judge, but it sure looks like Apple's trying to fleece some people that want the brand name to me.

Re:The state of external retina displays by fleddr on Monday December 27, 2021 @07:24PM (#29708692)
It's not an issue that the screen is expensive, but we should take issue that the way Apple positioned the screen is beyond misleading. It's a hard lie.

During the launch, Apple generously rewarded it with the title "best Pro display on the market" and directly compared it to a 35k Sony reference monitor.

The problem is, Apple's screen is unusable as a reference monitor. The screen is not uniform, has a strong "vignette". The backlight zones create blooming artifacts. Color accuracy is fairly good, but not better than something found in a low-end BenQ.

Not only is it not the best pro monitor, it's not a pro monitor at all. It literally cannot be used as a reference monitor. It's basically a 6K LCD screen with all the problems that come with LCD.

Re:The state of external retina displays by wmf on Monday December 27, 2021 @07:06PM (#29708537)
If you can get an equivalent (or better) monitor for the same price (or less)

You can't; that's the point. There are no 6K monitors besides the ridiculous Apple one and the Dell 8K probably needs to be run at 2.5x which I don't know if macOS even supports.

Re:The state of external retina displays by neither_color on Monday December 27, 2021 @08:01PM (#29709040)
I didnt realize it's only 60hz, that's pretty bad. You can get 4K gaming monitors that do 120hz for under $1000, even if the monitor itself looks dorky it's a very comfortable viewing experience scaled to 2560x1440 high density.
Re:The state of external retina displays by jasonladuke0311 on Monday December 27, 2021 @08:22PM (#29709212)
I just got a 32”, 4K, 120hz monitor for $1000.
Re:The state of external retina displays by BoorishBears on Monday December 27, 2021 @08:33PM (#29709277)
I got a 32" 4k 144hz monitor for $1000 and given how few of these there are odds are it's a similar panel

It's nothing compared to the XDR. I have no idea why this person thinks the XDR is bad for everyday users.

- I got one as a programmer who mostly looks at text. If you didn't tell me it has HDR always enabled I wouldn't have known, they've done an excellent job with managing bloom on non-HDR content.

- The resolution makes text milky smooth in a way that I always though 4k was this whole time

- 60hz has never bothered me despite regularly switching between this, the 144hz monitor, and a 360hz monitor....

- Accelerometer is neat enough, I have mine on a gas spring monitor arm and can be occasionally helpful to rotate

- Build quality is unmatched by all the gamer aesthetic stuff out there. Remove "backlight bleed" from your vocabulary.

Re:The state of external retina displays by jagger27 on Monday December 27, 2021 @08:37PM (#29709305)
4K isn't dense enough for proper 2x scaling at that size though. You have to go fractional, which is okay, but not great.
Re:The state of external retina displays by wswope on Tuesday December 28, 2021 @02:20PM (#29716935)
Yeah, who could ever imagine using a 1080p 32” monitor…
Re:The state of external retina displays by BoorishBears on Tuesday December 28, 2021 @03:59PM (#29718096)
It's pretty awful.

I got Dell's "5k" ultrawide before the XDR, and at the time M1 Macbooks couldn't do fractional scaling at that high of a resolution.

The result was essentially a wider 32" 1080p screen. And while the text was crisp, the space efficiency was absolutely awful.

I can't even imagine the 16:9 version of that...

Re:The state of external retina displays by wswope on Tuesday December 28, 2021 @07:24PM (#29720093)
I was originally making a snide joke (sorry) since it’s a popular form factor, and I can’t think of a better common option for 2x scaling than 4k 32”… but on review, I actually take your point on space efficiency, if we’re talking about it as a primary display.
Re:The state of external retina displays by jagger27 on Tuesday December 28, 2021 @11:54PM (#29722030)
I find 1080p at 27" to be comically big, let alone 32". Maybe my eyes are still young though.