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Re:Excerpt from CIA's Simple Sabotage Field Manual (1944) by jazzyjackson on Saturday December 18, 2021 @02:03PM (#29607438)
nah, CIA’s greatest trick is making people look over their shoulders, sabotage themselves through paranoia.

All the things in the quote happen naturally, through people’s general incompetence. To put it in a field manual is very tongue in cheek, reads to me as irony. Corporations and political parties run themselves as poorly as if they were infiltrated by sabotagers, but they do it to themselves.

Re:Excerpt from CIA's Simple Sabotage Field Manual (1944) by AnthonyMouse on Saturday December 18, 2021 @02:46PM (#29607878)
> nah, CIA’s greatest trick is making people look over their shoulders, sabotage themselves through paranoia.

My impression is completely the opposite. The CIA itself is a large inefficient bureaucracy and the people who wrote this are clever operators who have seen this in action themselves and can now point to this to accuse the perpetrators of being enemy saboteurs.

Think about what the countermeasures against this look like. Fewer bureaucratic rules, less rigidity, smaller teams, more individual autonomy. The behavior of the intransigent bureaucrat and the saboteur are the same, so institute policies in the name of defeating the one and you also take care of the other.

Re:Excerpt from CIA's Simple Sabotage Field Manual (1944) by dundarious on Saturday December 18, 2021 @03:15PM (#29608112)
Delusions that "CIA did it" are of course common, but it's also true that it's extremely common for people to say you're delusional or paranoid when you describe things the CIA has admitted to in public.

Take a look at the findings of the Church Committee, or at Operation Condor, Operation Mockingbird, the coup in Iran (admittedly a CIA operation), the CIA fomented strikes and civic unrest in Chile after Allende's election, Gladio, the "Jakarta Method", etc.

Re:Excerpt from CIA's Simple Sabotage Field Manual (1944) by dvt on Saturday December 18, 2021 @02:11PM (#29607533)
Totally agree with this. I think the CIA is just doubling down here on the very obvious idea that bureaucracies naturally self-destruct without correction. This has been known since at least the Reign of Terror (if not the Romans or the Greeks).
Re:Excerpt from CIA's Simple Sabotage Field Manual (1944) by marcosdumay on Saturday December 18, 2021 @04:14PM (#29608576)
The entire thing does look like a hoax. I would expect a guide to be full of detail on how to implement those things without anybody noticing. Whether it's intended to be a hoax or not, it's a very good joke, and a not very useful guide.

But anyway, the non-hoax better strategy for a saboteur is exactly doing whatever destructive acts come naturally to people. So a real guide would probably have those same topics.

Re:Excerpt from CIA's Simple Sabotage Field Manual (1944) by lazide on Saturday December 18, 2021 @04:52PM (#29608905)
And it does! That’s the guide.

And people do these things naturally all the time in large orgs and small. Visit a local PTA or a city council meeting with a copy and play bingo if you don’t believe me.

It only reads like a hoax because it’s all in one place.

Re:Excerpt from CIA's Simple Sabotage Field Manual (1944) by marcosdumay on Saturday December 18, 2021 @05:04PM (#29608999)
Honestly, I would expect more of how to not look so stupid or incompetent that people won't want you near anything important.

But then, that depends on the who the guide targets, and may not be as important during an active war as it looks like in peace time.

Re:Excerpt from CIA's Simple Sabotage Field Manual (1944) by bryanrasmussen on Saturday December 18, 2021 @06:07PM (#29609561)
>Honestly, I would expect more of how to not look so stupid or incompetent that people won't want you near anything important.

If I wanted to convince most people I were not stupid or incompetent I would:

1. point out problems with their plans

2. argue about precise wordings as pedantry is seen as the sign of a precise intelligence.

3. be reasonable and urge reasonableness, surely the incompetent would not be reasonable.

4. talk about potential ramifications of decisions made going against organizational goals.

etc. etc. in short many of the methods that will allow you to shut down progress also help bolster your own reputation for intellectual rigor and understanding of issues from all sides.

Sure you won't be seen as a fiery genius, but a sagacious counselor - that's good enough.

Re:Excerpt from CIA's Simple Sabotage Field Manual (1944) by hncurious on Saturday December 18, 2021 @03:05PM (#29608029)
Yes, but you can double down on this stuff or introduce it in places where it hasn't yet manifested. It's perfect precisely because these are natural inefficiencies.
Re:Excerpt from CIA's Simple Sabotage Field Manual (1944) by krapp on Saturday December 18, 2021 @02:41PM (#29607834)
This and the "Gentleperson's Guide to Forum Spies[0,1]," obviously a troll post from 4chan or somewhere similar given the language, which basically takes the normal activity of trolls and internet argument and tries to convince the reader that it's all the work of government agents.

Great way to stir up paranoia on a forum where people tend not to be able to grok humor, but also tend to believe in conspiracy theories.

[0]https://cryptome.org/2012/07/gent-forum-spies.htm

[1]https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4277278

Re:Excerpt from CIA's Simple Sabotage Field Manual (1944) by mcguire on Saturday December 18, 2021 @05:48PM (#29609386)
Re:Excerpt from CIA's Simple Sabotage Field Manual (1944) by krapp on Saturday December 18, 2021 @06:00PM (#29609505)
Why did you repost the document that is already the subject of this entire thread?
Re:Excerpt from CIA's Simple Sabotage Field Manual (1944) by mcguire on Sunday December 19, 2021 @12:22AM (#29611591)
I posted the link that is from the Homeland Security Digital Library.

It's pretty much not a troll post from 4chan.

Re:Excerpt from CIA's Simple Sabotage Field Manual (1944) by krapp on Sunday December 19, 2021 @05:18AM (#29612762)
It's also not the document I was talking about. The OSS wasn't discussing forum sliding or "anger trolling" in the 1940s.
Re:Excerpt from CIA's Simple Sabotage Field Manual (1944) by mcguire on Sunday December 19, 2021 @11:13PM (#29621510)
So "this" doesn't refer to the subject of this article?
Re:Excerpt from CIA's Simple Sabotage Field Manual (1944) by JasonFruit on Saturday December 18, 2021 @05:56PM (#29609472)
But then every once in a while you run across someone who makes you say, "Hmm."