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Re:BusKill – A USB kill cord for laptops by yholio on Wednesday December 15, 2021 @08:44AM (#29565778)
Good to have if you run a dark net marketplace or a political disident ring from public libraries.

An additional refinement is to autolock the device if a certain personal key combo (ex. Shit - vol up - vol down) is not pressed every few minutes in response to an audible click. If not unlocked in a minute or so with a complex password, the device halts to a disk encrypted state and unpowered ram, minimizing the window attackers have to recover RAM state.

Re:BusKill – A USB kill cord for laptops by zionic on Wednesday December 15, 2021 @09:07AM (#29566091)
Wouldn't it make sense to remove the battery on your laptop entirely? With a modified magsafe-like power cord any attempt to grab the machine hard-kills the system and RAM begins degrading immediately. Epoxy over the screw terminals would also delay an attacker long enough to prevent freezing the RAM with compressed air to try and dump RAM via an exploit kit.
Re:BusKill – A USB kill cord for laptops by pmorici on Wednesday December 15, 2021 @09:59AM (#29566786)
Devices to transfer from wall power to battery backup for transport have existed for a long time.

https://wiebetech.com/products/hotplug-field-kit/

Re:BusKill – A USB kill cord for laptops by remram on Wednesday December 15, 2021 @11:28AM (#29568116)
Re:BusKill – A USB kill cord for laptops by dehrmann on Wednesday December 15, 2021 @01:05PM (#29569424)
Seinfeld had a "rogue electrician" named Slippery Pete who could do this.
Re:BusKill – A USB kill cord for laptops by Doxin on Thursday December 16, 2021 @03:13AM (#29576158)
I always wonder if you could make a similar device work for EU plugs. You can't wiggle a EU plug out an 8th of an inch and have exposed line voltage, so I imagine you'd need some sort of trick to make it work.
Re:BusKill – A USB kill cord for laptops by qwaxys on Thursday December 16, 2021 @08:10AM (#29577750)
It's easier then you think.

For anything with more than one socket, you just plug in a second cable into a free socket, once the phases are synced up unplug the extension cord or cut the socket free.

For singular sockets straight into the wall, unscrew, clip on connectors with a V shaped knife and same as above.

Although when I was working we usually would take images onsite before even considering moving the devices.

It's definitely not bullet proof but I've set up my laptop to lock when Ethernet or the monitor is unplugged or any new USB device is plugged in. This stops most but not all live imaging.

Re:BusKill – A USB kill cord for laptops by gruez on Wednesday December 15, 2021 @09:14AM (#29566175)
>Epoxy over the screw terminals would also delay an attacker...

Might as well go all in and epoxy the ram sticks/dimm slot assembly.

Re:BusKill – A USB kill cord for laptops by ClumsyPilot on Wednesday December 15, 2021 @09:34AM (#29566449)
Would it cause overheating?
Re:BusKill – A USB kill cord for laptops by gruez on Wednesday December 15, 2021 @09:42AM (#29566537)
You don't have to douse the whole thing with expoxy. The dimm assembly looks like this: https://guide-images.cdn.ifixit.com/igi/dpYyM4oeOLPPTdpF.hug...

Putting epoxy around the top and bottom edges (where the retention clips are) and the right edge (where the contacts are) should make it extremely difficult to dislodge, but not impact the thermal performance of the chips (the black rectangles).

Re:BusKill – A USB kill cord for laptops by dotancohen on Wednesday December 15, 2021 @09:40AM (#29566513)
Aren't they already soldered in place in modern laptops?
Re:BusKill – A USB kill cord for laptops by doubled112 on Wednesday December 15, 2021 @09:56AM (#29566747)
Many laptops but not all laptops.

I've noticed many lower end have one soldered and one removable. Drives me crazy because then you end up with more RAM but less performance, so have to choose which hit is worse.

Re:BusKill – A USB kill cord for laptops by gruez on Wednesday December 15, 2021 @10:16AM (#29567046)
>I've noticed many lower end have one soldered and one removable

nah, that applies to many mid to high range laptops as well, eg. 14" thinkpads has had 1 soldered 1 removable dimm for years now.

Re:BusKill – A USB kill cord for laptops by GekkePrutser on Thursday December 16, 2021 @02:28AM (#29575940)
A lot of laptops either refuse to run or heavily throttle while running without internal battery. I know pretty much all Mac portables do it.

Basically the internal battery is used as a buffer for power peaks. So the laptop can use more than the adaptor can provide for a short time. If it didn't throttle it would become unstable.

Re:BusKill – A USB kill cord for laptops by tarboreus on Wednesday December 15, 2021 @10:32AM (#29567263)
I think the idea is that you might only have about a second to kill the device. Yes, you can throw your computer in a bathtub of saltwater or whatever but that's not really the point.
Re:BusKill – A USB kill cord for laptops by jacquesm on Wednesday December 15, 2021 @11:50AM (#29568429)
You better make sure that 'tampering with evidence' carries a lower penalty than the thing that you're trying to hide.
Re:BusKill – A USB kill cord for laptops by ozfive on Wednesday December 15, 2021 @07:37PM (#29573437)
How can you be charged with tampering with evidence by epoxying your ram dimms?

It's not as though you tampered with the device after the confiscation. Intent is also hard to prove on such a thing. I didn't want my dimms to fall out at any time if the machine was dropped is pretty good plausible deniability.

Re:BusKill – A USB kill cord for laptops by jacquesm on Thursday December 16, 2021 @08:39AM (#29577949)
Thinking that you are smarter than the judge you will appear before is not a strategy I would recommend.
Re:BusKill – A USB kill cord for laptops by Mandatum on Wednesday December 15, 2021 @12:12PM (#29568754)
You freeze the whole laptop.
Re:BusKill – A USB kill cord for laptops by lmilcin on Wednesday December 15, 2021 @08:50AM (#29565876)
The combo solution is not good enough, especially if you are in public.

If you can be observed to use the combo (which you would have to be using regularly) somebody else could be pressing the combo or they could insert USB device that can generate the combo regularly.

I would also add that locking your laptop is not safe enough if you are serious about this. There are devices that can exfiltrate information from what I understand almost every operating system through USB.

Re:BusKill – A USB kill cord for laptops by marcodiego on Wednesday December 15, 2021 @09:43AM (#29566557)
> There are devices that can exfiltrate information from what I understand almost every operating system through USB.

If that is true, then it is a vulnerability. You should file bug reports.

Re:BusKill – A USB kill cord for laptops by tjader on Wednesday December 15, 2021 @09:52AM (#29566693)
How will you prevent a USB device to present itself as both a keyboard and mass storage and then type commands that copy data?
Re:BusKill – A USB kill cord for laptops by sildur on Wednesday December 15, 2021 @10:14AM (#29567018)
With QubesOS. I just tried adding a keyboard and it simply showed me a pop up saying a USB keyboard has been attached. It won’t work until I attach it to a qube.
Re:BusKill – A USB kill cord for laptops by goodpoint on Wednesday December 15, 2021 @02:42PM (#29570666)
usbguard does that without the need for Qubes.
Re:BusKill – A USB kill cord for laptops by marcodiego on Wednesday December 15, 2021 @10:13AM (#29567007)
Keyboard and mouse plugged in after the system boots should only become effective after user permission is given using previously available devices.

For more safety: any plugged usb device should lock your screen so that a password is required before it can be used.

Re:BusKill – A USB kill cord for laptops by Karliss on Wednesday December 15, 2021 @10:20AM (#29567093)
If the computer is locked, typing commands will not do nothing. If computer is unlocked a person could do it manually without USB by just sending them over internet or storage device of choice, no fancy keyboard+mass storage device required.
Re:BusKill – A USB kill cord for laptops by DarylZero on Wednesday December 15, 2021 @10:51AM (#29567642)
An OS doesn't even need to implement USB support. Of course it can offer access controls to enable the USB devices.
Re:BusKill – A USB kill cord for laptops by tjader on Wednesday December 15, 2021 @10:58AM (#29567754)
Of course not, but then you're saying USB is a security flaw.

My point is that given how universal USB as long as a device can do both input and output it's going to be very hard to stop some exfiltration from being possible.

Do you really think a bug report should be filed on all OS's for allowing USB drives and keyboards to be plugged on a running system?

Re:BusKill – A USB kill cord for laptops by matheusmoreira on Wednesday December 15, 2021 @01:37PM (#29569890)
> you're saying USB is a security flaw

It is.

> Do you really think a bug report should be filed on all OS's for allowing USB drives and keyboards to be plugged on a running system?

Automatically trusting input devices is as bad as trusting user input. It's trivial to pass off a programmable USB keyboard as a mass storage device.

Re:BusKill – A USB kill cord for laptops by DarylZero on Wednesday December 15, 2021 @01:43PM (#29569981)
I was saying that the existence of the non-implementation of USB proves the possibility of access controls on USB.

Convoluted way to put it I guess. For some reason was intuitive to me (proof of existence by example, more trivial example better).

Having access controls on USB-HID is just a local policy choice where most people would choose convenience over security.

Re:BusKill – A USB kill cord for laptops by tjader on Wednesday December 15, 2021 @01:49PM (#29570063)
I agree, and it makes sense for some security oriented OS.

But the comment I replied to seemed to suggest that the possibility of data exfiltration via USB is a bug in any OS.

Re:BusKill – A USB kill cord for laptops by FpUser on Wednesday December 15, 2021 @10:08AM (#29566946)
Tried to find "Shit" key on my keyboard as it would save me a lot of time. No luck.
Re:BusKill – A USB kill cord for laptops by yholio on Thursday December 16, 2021 @12:41PM (#29581114)
You have to admit, that's a shift joke.
Re:BusKill – A USB kill cord for laptops by kingcharles on Wednesday December 15, 2021 @10:09AM (#29566952)
Exactly. You need something not for when your laptop is removed from you, but when you are removed from your laptop.

Also, if you are being targeted this hard you need to have something for when you are left in front of your laptop and a gun is put to your head. Or the attackers threaten the welfare of your family.

Re:BusKill – A USB kill cord for laptops by somedude895 on Wednesday December 15, 2021 @10:22AM (#29567119)
> You need something not for when your laptop is removed from you, but when you are removed from your laptop.

Yeah, this wouldn't have saved the admin of Alphabay, a now defunct darknet market. The FBI staged a car crash outside his house so when he'd come out to see what was going on they could arrest him and likely get to his laptop while it was unlocked. Then again, he really shouldn't have left his computer unlocked.

Re:BusKill – A USB kill cord for laptops by mdrzn on Wednesday December 15, 2021 @10:45AM (#29567518)
> Alphabay

Related video is all I could find about this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HXrXD1M6kXk

Re:BusKill – A USB kill cord for laptops by alias_neo on Wednesday December 15, 2021 @10:58AM (#29567764)
That seems like a great expense to go to for the sake of a possibility the guy might do more than peek out of the window and then go back to what they were doing.

Surely there were a bunch of other options to consider before "let's stage a car crash"?

Re:BusKill – A USB kill cord for laptops by somedude895 on Thursday December 16, 2021 @02:08AM (#29575826)
I heard the story on the Darknet Diaries podcast.

This article on Vice[0] seems to confirm it:

> Phirippidis told the audience that the bureau managed to corner Cazes and arrest him while he was still logged in as the admin of AlphaBay by ramming a car through the front gate of his home in Thailand.

[0] https://www.vice.com/en/article/59wwxx/fbi-airs-alexandre-ca...

Re:BusKill – A USB kill cord for laptops by alias_neo on Thursday December 16, 2021 @03:43AM (#29576305)
Thanks for the link, that was an interesting read.

The part abour crashing it through his front gate makes it more likely he'll respond which makes more sense.

Re:BusKill – A USB kill cord for laptops by matheusmoreira on Wednesday December 15, 2021 @02:04PM (#29570241)
If someome is pointing a gun at you, it's probably too late to do anything. There should probably be cameras and motion detectors monitoring the perimeter in order to provide early warning.
Re:BusKill – A USB kill cord for laptops by kingcharles on Wednesday December 15, 2021 @02:12PM (#29570316)
The second part is harder to defend against. I didn't flinch when LEO pointed a loaded gun at me and threatened to shoot me, but as soon as they threatened my wife I told them I would sign whatever fiction they wanted to write, which I did. It just took me close to 8 years of being in jail to get a judge to look at it and tell them off and throw out the document.
Re:BusKill – A USB kill cord for laptops by matheusmoreira on Wednesday December 15, 2021 @02:33PM (#29570567)
... Police threatened your wife in order to make you sign a confession? That's extremely fucked up.
Re:BusKill – A USB kill cord for laptops by kingcharles on Wednesday December 15, 2021 @03:02PM (#29570883)
Yes. Stupid retards did it on video though, otherwise it wouldn't have been seen at all. This was after over an hour of threatening me and refusing my right to silence, not letting me speak to my lawyer, etc.
Re:BusKill – A USB kill cord for laptops by at_a_remove on Wednesday December 15, 2021 @03:12PM (#29571018)
I would like to know more, if you're able.

Eight years of false imprisonment sounds like lawsuit city, to me.

Re:BusKill – A USB kill cord for laptops by kingcharles on Wednesday December 15, 2021 @08:58PM (#29573969)
It is. I filed suit for a lot of different claims related to this, the only one that stuck was the coerced statements. I filed in 2015 but it is still working through the federal court.
Re:BusKill – A USB kill cord for laptops by Jerrrry on Wednesday December 15, 2021 @09:02AM (#29566035)
Instead of a personal key combo, a dongle with an OTP code.

Both the dongle and the computer have accelerometer-bump-tilt-oh-fuck-support.

A OTP has to be entered every 5 minutes, or a secure screen/dead sequence starts.

Sudden accelerated movements or a lack of presence-detection would also start the sequence.

Re:BusKill – A USB kill cord for laptops by MayeulC on Wednesday December 15, 2021 @09:34AM (#29566451)
I once wrote a script to automatically lock my computer if I got too far away from it, back when I was wearing a bluetooth wristband.

I guess you could do the same, but shut down the computer instead.

Re:BusKill – A USB kill cord for laptops by reaperducer on Wednesday December 15, 2021 @10:00AM (#29566810)
I once wrote a script to automatically lock my computer if I got too far away from it, back when I was wearing a bluetooth wristband.

I had a program like this back in PowerBook days. It automatically unlocked the computer if a specified Bluetooth signal reached a particular strength, and locked the computer again if the signal strength fell below another threshold.

It worked great, when it worked. It had maybe a 70% success rate, but that was good enough.

Re:BusKill – A USB kill cord for laptops by vkou on Wednesday December 15, 2021 @01:45PM (#29570004)
If the feds are pinching you for computer crime in a public space, this is exactly why they'd handcuff you, but keep you within ~10 feet of your laptop.
Re:BusKill – A USB kill cord for laptops by Jerrrry on Wednesday December 15, 2021 @03:30PM (#29571230)
heartbeat monitor.

unless they hit you with the cryo, too.

Re:BusKill – A USB kill cord for laptops by ozfive on Wednesday December 15, 2021 @07:41PM (#29573464)
Brilliant! Going to go work on this now...
Re:BusKill – A USB kill cord for laptops by ComputerGuru on Wednesday December 15, 2021 @12:03PM (#29568631)
Windows 10 does this automatically if you pair your phone to your Windows 10 PC via bluetooth. When you walk away, it locks the screen.
Re:BusKill – A USB kill cord for laptops by nefitty on Wednesday December 15, 2021 @09:46AM (#29566610)
Unfortunately, iOS-provided location resolution for use in shortcuts makes it worthless for in-home use. Unless you live in a mansion though I guess.
Re:BusKill – A USB kill cord for laptops by MayeulC on Wednesday December 15, 2021 @10:07AM (#29566937)
You are assuming the signal is strong enough to be read at a distance. I just used the RSSI, and going away a few meters was enough. Moreover, since that was just a nicety in case I forgot to lock my computer during a corridor conversation, I could get away with a longer timeout.

A more sophisticated implementation could be done if you can write software on the device. A PineTime would be perfect for this.

I am not sure why mention iOS specifically, a phone is easily forgettable. Moreover, you don't really need to rely on any location API provided by the system, even if UWB or Bluetooth Location Services would do wonders for this, a simple RTT latency measurement or RSSI value should be enough.

Re:BusKill – A USB kill cord for laptops by nefitty on Wednesday December 15, 2021 @10:57AM (#29567742)
I always carry my phone, even if moving to another room. I assumed that a similar behavior is why you got rid of your wristband.
Re:BusKill – A USB kill cord for laptops by MayeulC on Wednesday December 15, 2021 @04:13PM (#29571710)
No, I got rid of it for multiple other reasons: started using a mechanical watch again, got rid of all proprietary software on my phone (though I used gadgetbridge for a while), realized anybody could just track me as the band was broadcasting the same MAC address everywhere.

I also got multiple LG watch R, I'm probably going to fiddle a bit with them when I have time, hopefully mainlining them and porting postmarketos over. I'm open to trying again with those. In the end, I don't really have sensitive documents on a laptop (besides work-related confidential stuff), so I'm not sure I'd crank paranoia to 11.

As for my phone, I often pull it out of my pocket and leave it on my desk, or abandon it somewhere, charging or powered off -- I should probably be more careful with that, but people know to expect some latency when contacting me.

Re:BusKill – A USB kill cord for laptops by goodpoint on Wednesday December 15, 2021 @02:46PM (#29570698)
> Good to have if you run a dark net marketplace or a political disident ring from public libraries.

...and expose the contents of the screen to any camera with a good zoom? And the passwords you type? Not good.

It's just an very overpriced thing that can protect you from a thief and not the FBI.

Re:BusKill – A USB kill cord for laptops by generalizations on Wednesday December 15, 2021 @03:25PM (#29571176)
He's making a reference to dread pirate Roberts. This was the threat model.