News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:Amazon’s Kindle Tablet Is Very Real. I’ve Seen It, Played... by joebadmo on Friday September 02, 2011 @04:45PM (#2955516)
In certain ways, this "post-PC" era that Apple's brought us into with the iPad seems like a step backward. We're going back to something more like the broadcast television model, where a more or less centralized authority produces the content for passive users to consume. These tablets just keep getting more and more optimized for that.

I suppose it's somewhat natural, given the way the market works, but it seems our tools for consumption are advancing at a significantly greater rate than our tools for production.

I guess the opposing side is the Web. Amazon seems to be shaping up to be solidly on the side of the centralized authority-type cathedral builders, while the Web and Web technologies are more bazaar-like. It seems more and more like Google is the only powerful singular force whose incentives align with the Web instead of with more centralized production hubs.

Re:Amazon’s Kindle Tablet Is Very Real. I’ve Seen It, Played... by nigham on Friday September 02, 2011 @07:38PM (#2956012)
A step backward is hardly the way I'd put it. Consumption-related technology as well as production related technologies are improving dramatically; we perceive the pace of consumption technology as being faster because consumption technology is far more applicable, and affects more users, and so it's more on the news. This is not a problem, there have always been more readers than writers, movie watchers than movie producers, software users than software creators.

There isn't too much discussion when there's a new version of Photoshop, or VIM, or Django, or Wordpress, or countless other technologies (e.g. http://www.asciiflow.com/) and platforms that help with content creation. One reason I read HN is that these items usually make it here. It's easier to create content now than at any time in the past.

How many people built software before iOS and Android? A few folks scattered across huge companies that either built consumer products or provided services for those companies. Today, iOS has half a million apps -- somebody produced them. Arguably the 'consumption-only' device that you think has taken us a step backward has given tens of thousands of people incentive to produce something. Amazon's vision is for authors to be able to self-publish without going through the hassle of publishers, giving more incentive for people to produce. Whereas making movies was once a task for multibillion dollar studios, Youtube has enabled something like the Khan Academy to start earning money by producing content.

You cannot have better and better consumption oriented devices in a vacuum. Someone has to produce what the masses are consuming.

Re:Amazon’s Kindle Tablet Is Very Real. I’ve Seen It, Played... by rmc on Saturday September 03, 2011 @09:30AM (#2957231)
How many people built software before iOS and Android? A few folks scattered across huge companies that either built consumer products or provided services for those companies.

Nonsense. Pre-2008 (iPhone App Store launch) there was loads of software aimed at the residential market. There was also the open source movement, which had created a whole operating system from scratch. Yes, the App Stores have made it much easier to sell software, but to think that all software was made in megacorps is silly. This isn't the 1980s!

Re:Amazon’s Kindle Tablet Is Very Real. I’ve Seen It, Played... by joebadmo on Friday September 02, 2011 @08:29PM (#2956098)
That's an interesting take.

I guess the way it looks to me is that the last dramatic production advancement for lay people was the advent of blogging. The two major advancements after that have been social networking and tablets, which both somewhat degrade production signal.

The observation that an optimized consumption experience gives producers a bigger audience is an interesting one. But I think what I'm objecting to is the further distinction between those classes. The PC and blogging revolutions were profound to me in that they closed the gap between the producers and consumers. Tablets, on the other hand, make the distinction more overt. Same with the Kindle.

You cannot have better and better consumption oriented devices in a vacuum. Someone has to produce what the masses are consuming.

While this is true, my point is about who has the means for production. I would rather see that power distributed than concentrated.

Re:Amazon’s Kindle Tablet Is Very Real. I’ve Seen It, Played... by chc on Friday September 02, 2011 @08:39PM (#2956118)
Who has the means for production? Everyone has the means for production! It doesn't take some special equipment to write a book and publish it to the Kindle. People's ability to publish long-form writing is at an all-time high thanks to e-readers. The fact that the device used to create the content is different from the one people prefer to use to consume it doesn't really matter if everybody has both — which they do.
Re:Amazon’s Kindle Tablet Is Very Real. I’ve Seen It, Played... by firebones on Sunday September 04, 2011 @12:38AM (#2958824)
If the urge, desire and instinct to communicate is universal, but only the means of production have been democratized since the advent of blogging, then I wonder: fifty years ago, what were the people who are most likely to be blogging today doing to express themselves?

I suspect that they were much more locally focused. Writing letters to the editor (because people still read the paper), aligning with community social organizations, being more actively involved in their communities.

So now we're able to form narrowcast tribes across geographic (and even temporal) boundaries. Are we better off? En masse, such connections may leave whole societies better off (Arab spring) but I think that perhaps we won't realize the full benefits until the focus returns to the local. And that won't happen until there's a rise in the locality of the internet.

Think reinvention of the local paper; or maybe a craigslist for the issues of the day.

And that can't happen until the technology is in the hands and power of EVERYONE. Think Kindles (or iPads, or whatever) in a rack at your McDonalds, literally replacing the local paper. Perhaps the biggest advancement here is the price point; but we need to cut that iPad cost in half perhaps 5-8 more times for this access to happen.

When that day hits--the day of the ubiquitous $1 Kindle--then I think we can claim democratization, and we will see a return to locality and the strengthening of our communities.

Re:Amazon’s Kindle Tablet Is Very Real. I’ve Seen It, Played... by joebadmo on Friday September 02, 2011 @08:47PM (#2956135)
But my point is that if tablets, which people refer to as "post-PC" devices, in some significant measure replace PCs, then they only have consumption devices.
Re:Amazon’s Kindle Tablet Is Very Real. I’ve Seen It, Played... by nigham on Friday September 02, 2011 @09:50PM (#2956236)
One reason for the popularity of these devices is that people are producing more content. Folks aren't watching CNN/BBC on an iPad but self produced Youtube videos and they're reading more than NY times bestsellers on a Kindle.

There is an assumption here that people with a PC will automatically become producers which I think is wrong. For people to become producers they need incentive and opportunity. These devices and the ease of content creation is means the opportunity bar is much lower (e.g. you don't need to get a publisher to agree on a manuscript to publish); and the incentive is higher (you can monetize content you produce whether its apps, books or videos much more easily).

Re:Amazon’s Kindle Tablet Is Very Real. I’ve Seen It, Played... by easp on Saturday September 03, 2011 @10:40PM (#2958670)
But, if you spend much time on YouTube, it is surprising the range of people who have become content producers. To give just one example, my wife is fascinated by all the people doing makeup tutorials. These are people who might have explained things to a few friends, maybe, and now they have audiences of hundreds or thousands. Most of them are made with webcams on their laptops, and there is no reason they couldn't do the same thing on iPads or iPod Touches.
Re:Amazon’s Kindle Tablet Is Very Real. I’ve Seen It, Played... by cwp on Saturday September 03, 2011 @05:11AM (#2956936)
But post-PC devices are only partially replacing the PC - in those areas where they're better than PCs. We're not losing anything, only gaining something new.
Re:Amazon’s Kindle Tablet Is Very Real. I’ve Seen It, Played... by greyish_water on Friday September 02, 2011 @09:12PM (#2956177)
How is it consumption when someone e.g., records a song in GarageBand?
Re:Amazon’s Kindle Tablet Is Very Real. I’ve Seen It, Played... by sgns on Friday September 02, 2011 @11:48PM (#2956429)
I wonder if production is not more inherent to the human being than you give it credit for being. How, otherwise, did we get from TV-land to the internet? Was it not a case of frustrated need for self-expression and response to new stimuli?

What is missing here is actually a perspective on how consumption is a form of production itself– of perspective. Better access, and new forms and content for consumption, will create (that word!) new forms of consciousness, which are fed back in production.

Consumption today seem to me more of a form of networking of sources and producers, production of perspective. There's so little that we yet know about our still new internet reality. Polishing consumption may very well be necessary in order for us to make sense of our current social/technological stage, to produce new forms of social networking/organization and ultimately new every-other-form of content/artifacts.

To dive in at the deep end: consuming stuff on a tablet, with the accompanying delights and frustrations - is part of the networking of the device itself into the cycle of human content consumption-production. There's no reason to believe that the tablet as an object is finished, and that it won't evolve to fit the 'expressive needs' of people – your own frustration/pessimism are a part of this cycle, both leading people to not use tablets, to look for different desktop paradigms, new forms of interaction with tablets, improving tablet ergonomics and on and on. You're surely not alone.

The cycle won't stop. We must not get down when there's so much great work to be done! Yet, again, also our negative feeling in this regard is ultimately productive, if we let it.

Re:Amazon’s Kindle Tablet Is Very Real. I’ve Seen It, Played... by niklas_a on Saturday September 03, 2011 @04:43AM (#2956880)
My iPad is my primary device for blogging. Since it is so accessible I end up blogging more now that I have it than I did before.
Re:Amazon’s Kindle Tablet Is Very Real. I’ve Seen It, Played... by estel on Friday September 02, 2011 @07:40PM (#2956017)
With respect to app development, which has been incredible in how widespread it's become, it's possible it's just an extension of what the Web started: incredible democratisation of creation.
Re:Amazon’s Kindle Tablet Is Very Real. I’ve Seen It, Played... by sgns on Friday September 02, 2011 @11:09PM (#2956358)
Great point! Illustrates just how we're still living with the implications of just how the first extremely undemocratic reality of 'code as content' – first encapsulated in program devlopment, then going through a slight democratization route regarding computer usage through the Macintosh, and moving on through the html web – still is playing out.

One can at least see that the path-to-market of content has been democratized with the web over time… and the App stores/'App paradigm' are also helpful in making it possible for more to program.

I think a big part of our dilemmas have had to do with how isolated and abstract programming and development have been compared to mainstream society. A relative 'mainstreaming' of programming is still an incredible thought – yet it is happening right now!

Whatever happens to our present jobs, I can't help but think that the infusion of new programming talent is about to create a new reality – a wave that could lift a great number of us – given appropriate channels for us all to contribute so much more than regular business logic programming - and us people practicing and getting ready to catch it!

(over the top eh? :)

Re:Amazon’s Kindle Tablet Is Very Real. I’ve Seen It, Played... by HSO on Saturday September 03, 2011 @05:00AM (#2956909)
I'm growing more and more irritated by the classification of "reading" as "consumption". Consumption is usually defined as a sink of goods (as opposed to "investment" or "production").

Reading per se, however, does not result in anything vanishing from the system. It _can_ mean that but usually the ideas or perspectives contained in the book or article change the ideas or perspectives of the reader. Reading _can_ be pure consumption, for sure, but that describes a specific type of reading.

One could argue that buying a physical copy and tossing it after you're done is the act of consumption. But then the consumption really concerns only the physical medium, not the content.

Am I splitting hairs? I'm not sure, to be honest, but I feel the more people talk about reading as something "for passive users to consume", the more it narrows the industry perspective on what transmitting ideas between people means or could mean.

Re:Amazon’s Kindle Tablet Is Very Real. I’ve Seen It, Played... by astine on Saturday September 03, 2011 @08:19AM (#2957131)
"Am I splitting hairs?"

You are, but let me split them further. Any expense can be classified as either a capital expense or a consumptive one. Expenses classified as one can usually, with a few logical contortions, also be classified as the other. For example, food is the classical consumptive expense, but one could also treat it as an investment as food keeps one alive (and healthy hopefully) and allows one to work in the future. I think that the same can be said about reading here. If you buy a book, it's an expense, and if you read it, you've "consumed" it. Sure you can read it again or someone else can read it, but it's still a consumer good.

I think what people mean here is that devices like this and the iPad are not generally geared to the production of works and more to their consumption. What I mean is, while reading a book on the Amazon Kindle might be an investment in your own mind and future, the Kindle doesn't enable one to author his own books. The web however, does enable one to put up his own webpage or blog (if you can figure it out.) I think this is what people are talking about here. It has to do with our place in the economics of the thing.

Re:Amazon’s Kindle Tablet Is Very Real. I’ve Seen It, Played... by siglesias on Friday September 02, 2011 @06:59PM (#2955929)
Two factors have led to the perception that tablets are "consumption" devices.

1) A tablet is a computer you can hold. Books and magazines have over time become optimized for holding (see size and weight) precisely due to the ergonomics of reading. Thus one would expect that tablets, which can store a vast number of books and magazines, would be "optimized" for such content.

2) Due to (1) it makes sense to trade power for battery life and thus iPad-era tablets use ARM processors. Word processors, music editors, video editors do exist for tablets and each has full privileges to have any interface it wants by assuming the full screen. Over time that software will get more powerful as these low-power processors advance. It can't be argued that iOS itself hinders content creation, but it can be argued that slow processors do. Time will take care of this.

Also I don't see consumption--by which you mean reading--to be a bad thing to do with a computer. Amazon's stated purpose for the Kindle is to enable every book in every language ever printed to be available in under a minute. That's an extraordinary vision if you think about it, and we're getting there very quickly. Hardly a step backwards.

Re:Amazon’s Kindle Tablet Is Very Real. I’ve Seen It, Played... by joebadmo on Friday September 02, 2011 @07:10PM (#2955954)
You're right that it's certainly a step forward for consumption.

What I meant is that it's a step backward for what I saw as the trend toward a world in which the power to create things is more evenly distributed.

Don't get me wrong, I have a kindle, and I love it. But it's not just optimized for reading, it's optimized for reading content that's distributed through a centrally maintained distribution channel. (And while Amazon is trying to wrest control of that channel from the traditional publishers, it's a transfer of power from one central authority to another.) Which is why I appreciate tools like Readability's 'send to kindle' bookmarklet so much: it lets me read content from the bazaar more easily. But. Even then, I had to jump through hoops and the formatting isn't great. In short, it's not optimized.

Furthermore, while on the web on a PC I can read a blog post and then immediately comment, share, or respond in a blog post of my own, on my kindle I can't do any of that. I have to put my own system in place to even remember to do it later. In other words, the Kindle optimizes my consumption experience at the expense of my production experience in a way that's sort of profound in a way that I acutely feel is a step backward.

Re:Amazon’s Kindle Tablet Is Very Real. I’ve Seen It, Played... by siglesias on Friday September 02, 2011 @07:36PM (#2956008)
Let's try to clarify a little. There are two pillars to your argument, from what I can tell.

1) Content on post-PC devices is mediated through a central authority. You argue this is bad because presumably you cannot read whatever you want, but only what the central authority allows through. But reading whatever content you want is not enough, you also would have expected that any content you find out there that is optimized for a desktop browser be re-optimized by the tablet device for reading on it.

Response: A valid criticism of the Kindle, though in practice it seems that you are asking for an extension of what is already offered, implying a superset, not a sibling set of functionality. For example, the Kindle has always offered a browser but the technology didn't seem good enough to render a website quickly. Considering that Amazon had its pick of web-to-e-ink and books-to-e-ink, I can't immediately fault them for what they chose to throw their weight behind first--purely from the standpoint of practicality.

You criticized the iPad in your original post, but I don't see any of the iPad's existing functionality being at odds with choice of content provider or lack of optimization for reading web content (see Instapaper, Flipboard, built-in Readablility in iOS 5).

2) Your ability to "produce content" on these tablet devices is hindered.

Response: I addressed this point in my original post. This by and large is a result of the technology available for a holdable computer, not a nefarious choice on the part of the manufacturers. I think the ability to write blog posts on a plastic Kindle is asking a lot (would that even be enjoyable?), and that ability exists on an iPad today, in fact, since it was introduced.

Re:Amazon’s Kindle Tablet Is Very Real. I’ve Seen It, Played... by joebadmo on Friday September 02, 2011 @08:35PM (#2956109)
1) I actually don't have that much of a problem with the Kindle (the e-ink one), at least not as much as with the iPad, because it's not a replacement for the PC, which is a production device as well as a consumption device.

The iPad, on the other hand, is a replacement for device for a large class of people, and it's optimized for the consumption of centrally mediated content. It's not strictly at odds with the web, but it privileges its own distribution channels. I believe that has an effect.

2) Again, not an argument against the Kindle so much as the iPad for reasons stated in (1). But the iPad offers a degraded experience for writing blog posts, for example, compared to a PC. I believe that friction matters. I believe this optimization will only continue to privilege consumption and specifically mediated consumption as time goes on, because that's where the incentives lie. This makes me sad.

[Edit: I'm not necessarily trying to criticize manufacturers as nefarious. They're just doing what the market dictates. I am saying the phenomenon is unfortunate, and I'm trying to raise awareness of the issue to get people thinking of ways to empower more people to create more, better, richer, things. I was also pointing out that Google is maybe the one large corporation that has the power and the motivation to do so.]

Re:Amazon’s Kindle Tablet Is Very Real. I’ve Seen It, Played... by sgns on Friday September 02, 2011 @10:49PM (#2956329)
Interesting perspective. I wonder how likely those for whom iPads are the only computing device today are to ever think of using the 'production tools' specific to the PC though.

Or is it simply that the iPad makes so much consumption so easy – on a PC NOTHING is very easy to do in comparison. It's a little bit like the idea that TV only is for kicking back, even though you can make very difficult content for it too – all creators exlore the nature of their medium/device, whether it be developers or content producers!

iMovie - plenty of amazing music-making apps in addition to Garageband – and an increasing number of outlining apps, OmniOutliner, productivity apps like OmniFocus – seem to suggest that appmakers are still only starting to explore what can be done with this new UI and what the usage scenarios are for this device. They're different!

TODAY, most of the apps existing presume that you have a PC, and indeed, until iOS 5 – soon coming out – you need a PC for backups and various device management tasks. That PC dependence will end, and with it maybe most of the need for tablets to be defined as complementary 'consumption' devices. How file management will work with apps in the iCloud is only about to start to get worked out. Indeed, looking at how the iCloud works suggests their vision of how people will use their various devices together – it's still quite untried!

So, I'd not say tablets are doomed to be for consumption – it's more of a market dynamics question, like you note, together with technology just getting created. It's really about what gets explored. And one can hardly say that the app store model can't be successful for those who want to create something new.

I'm hopeful – and also did some of my best work at that time on a Psion Series 5, back in 1998. For editing, the touch interface, with a stylus and a keyboard, turned out superior to desktop word processing - at least to me.

What we're getting away from is maybe the idea that work is done at a desktop – something that still lived on with laptops. It will partly be a sort of 'self-conscious' loop of what is possible to be done – what we make possible to be done – and how convenient and productive these tools then turn out. 'A bicycle for the mind' indeed...

Re:Amazon’s Kindle Tablet Is Very Real. I’ve Seen It, Played... by _debug_ on Saturday September 03, 2011 @10:00AM (#2957280)
Apple has not brought us anywhere in particular : people have always been that passive. The iPad's popularity is because of the lack of a keyboard for these 95% of the population. For folks like you and me, it is despite the lack of a keyboard.
Re:Amazon’s Kindle Tablet Is Very Real. I’ve Seen It, Played... by blrgeek on Friday September 02, 2011 @11:27PM (#2956404)
Think of the post-PC tablets as replacing TVs/books/browsers/iPods in time spent consuming content.

Content consumption devices (aka radio, TV, books, mp3 players) have not had a significant advance in decades. The browser was the first new conduit that moved people away from these devices. These people used a PC, but merely as a content consumption device, NOT as a content creation device!

Now tablets - which are mostly hardware for browsers, becoming more so with 'cloud' services - are becoming personal content consumption devices.

As long as there's a browser, it's a window to the world of content - not just the central authority's content.

For so long producers have wanted to have a powerful computing device in every hand. Now that day is closer!

Re:Amazon’s Kindle Tablet Is Very Real. I’ve Seen It, Played... by chc on Friday September 02, 2011 @05:07PM (#2955595)
Can you explain how a tablet-form Kindle is more centralized and passive than one with physical keys? I don't follow.
Re:Amazon’s Kindle Tablet Is Very Real. I’ve Seen It, Played... by joebadmo on Friday September 02, 2011 @05:13PM (#2955618)
Not more than the old kindle, but more than the old model of computing, PCs with dedicated input.
Re:Amazon’s Kindle Tablet Is Very Real. I’ve Seen It, Played... by Hawramani on Friday September 02, 2011 @05:47PM (#2955733)
To me things haven't really changed. The non-techy users never made good use of the freedoms of the PC-era, so to them their environment was just as restricted as the Kindle or iPad environment.

As for the geeks, things haven't changed either. We find ways to open up the devices and get the freedoms we want.

Re:Amazon’s Kindle Tablet Is Very Real. I’ve Seen It, Played... by joebadmo on Friday September 02, 2011 @05:57PM (#2955760)
I agree with you on the extreme ends of the spectrum. But there are plenty of people in the middle who can be encouraged in either direction by the way we construct our tools. I think the explosion of content on the web, or Web 2.0, is all the evidence you need.
Re:Amazon’s Kindle Tablet Is Very Real. I’ve Seen It, Played... by chc on Friday September 02, 2011 @06:25PM (#2955836)
The iPad has also had an explosion of content. Why is that not all the evidence you need?
Re:Amazon’s Kindle Tablet Is Very Real. I’ve Seen It, Played... by mstolpm on Friday September 02, 2011 @07:05PM (#2955942)
I can't speak for chc, but content creation on tablets and smart phones is real for joe average. Maybe not the kind of content joebadmo is thinking about, but the iphone 4 is the most popular camera on Flickr: photo and video editing power is given to the normal user without learning Photoshop or Avid. Even the customizing of your "personal" news magazine in apps like flipboard, Zite, ... is some kind of "content creation". Moreover, social media doesn't need keyboard and PC - most content on SM sites is created/shared "on the fly". I could go on. And lets wait for the integration of voice recognition in iOS 5 (and coming Android versions) - I don't thing the post-PC area is a step backwards. Content and content creation is changing for the non-power user ... and tablets and smart phones are heading to fill this niche.
Re:Amazon’s Kindle Tablet Is Very Real. I’ve Seen It, Played... by joebadmo on Friday September 02, 2011 @08:36PM (#2956114)
Re:Amazon’s Kindle Tablet Is Very Real. I’ve Seen It, Played... by joebadmo on Friday September 02, 2011 @06:49PM (#2955895)
Could you elaborate on that? Do you mean apps? Or some other kind of content? I'm not quite following what you mean.
Re:Amazon’s Kindle Tablet Is Very Real. I’ve Seen It, Played... by chc on Friday September 02, 2011 @07:59PM (#2956048)
Apps, optimized websites, content-sharing networks like Instagram, etc.

Basically, the flip side of the increased consumption is that it's a lot easier to get your work out to other people, which means people who previously couldn't or wouldn't are now becoming producers. For example, a lot more people are publishing books for e-readers because those platforms make it so easy — with Amazon, it's pretty much as simple as logging into your Amazon account and uploading a text file. Web series (e.g. "The Guild") are a viable medium because so many people have these easy-consumption devices.

Re:Amazon’s Kindle Tablet Is Very Real. I’ve Seen It, Played... by joebadmo on Friday September 02, 2011 @08:36PM (#2956113)
Re:Amazon’s Kindle Tablet Is Very Real. I’ve Seen It, Played... by rmc on Saturday September 03, 2011 @09:35AM (#2957239)
The non-techy users never made good use of the freedoms of the PC-era, so to them their environment was just as restricted as the Kindle or iPad environment.

Yes and no. They didn't create software, but they created content. Just look at Facebook & other social network sites. It's full of user generated content. Likewise people generated content to print out with word processors, and they generated content as emails to send to people. They also generated photographic content. However pretty much all of this is now done in web browsers, so in a way, you can generate all this content with iPad/Kindle.

Re:Amazon’s Kindle Tablet Is Very Real. I’ve Seen It, Played... by OWaz on Friday September 02, 2011 @06:33PM (#2955859)
If you don't mind would you elaborate on what type of content you meant when you said: "centralized authority produces the content for passive users to consume". When I think of content the first thing that comes to mind is stuff like image editing (Photoshop, LR3,Aperture etc) and video editing because those are two realms I spend my free time in. I didn't get what you meant by your statement so that's why I asked.

And just to be clear I do believe that tablets are aimed at content consumption and not so much content creation, and I believe that to be a good thing. Why? Well people don't need a $2000 laptop to surf the web and check email.

Re:Amazon’s Kindle Tablet Is Very Real. I’ve Seen It, Played... by joebadmo on Friday September 02, 2011 @07:02PM (#2955936)
I was referring to big studios producing expensive movies, tv shows, albums, music videos, book, and magazines.
Re:Amazon’s Kindle Tablet Is Very Real. I’ve Seen It, Played... by beaumartinez on Friday September 02, 2011 @05:05PM (#2955591)
> our tools for consumption are advancing at a significantly greater rate than our tools for production

Our tools for production have advanced as far as they can—what major changes have the desktop and laptop PC had over the last five years?

Re:Amazon’s Kindle Tablet Is Very Real. I’ve Seen It, Played... by cageface on Friday September 02, 2011 @05:22PM (#2955655)
I think this is a symptom of lack of imagination and not of some kind of conceptual wall. We're still dragging along a lot of old baggage and assumptions.
Re:Amazon’s Kindle Tablet Is Very Real. I’ve Seen It, Played... by joebadmo on Friday September 02, 2011 @05:16PM (#2955634)
That's part of my point. The R&D is going into optimizing consumption instead of enabling production. I think there's still room for making it easier for people to produce expressive content. I don't think I'm necessarily imaginative enough to think of many, or the best, but I've started to try.[0] I think some people, particularly those working on Web stuff, are also trying. But I think web software is only one vector. Other vectors include: hardware, operating systems, native applications.

[0]: http://blog.byjoemoon.com/post/9325300749/a-different-kind-o...

Re:Amazon’s Kindle Tablet Is Very Real. I’ve Seen It, Played... by anigbrowl on Friday September 02, 2011 @07:27PM (#2955984)
I disagree completely. I find my tablet a killer productivity tool, and only wish it had been available for use in filmmaking years ago. The only reason that I didn't build my production sound recording rig around a tablet computer was that the cost was so high; the only tablets powerful enough to run an operating system and record multi-channel audio were also built and priced for military or industrial use and severely limited by battery capacity. a 6-channel hard-disk based digital recorder cost close to $10,000 a few years ago. That same functionality (and much much more) will be available via tablet+USB audio interface within a year for $1000.

People said the exact same thing when the mouse and GUI came along - it was eye-candy, a substitute designed to distract the credulous from the fact that we had hit the limits of productivity and that it was all downhill from here on. They said the same thing about microcomputers and minicomputers as substitute for mainframe terminals.

Re:Amazon’s Kindle Tablet Is Very Real. I’ve Seen It, Played... by 9999 on Friday September 02, 2011 @05:45PM (#2955725)
In terms of desktop publishing you might be right, but I think we've seen amazing strides in the realms of audio and video production in the past ten years. It's now possible to buy cameras and audio recording gear for pennies on the dollar of what you used to pay for tools with similar capabilities. Meanwhile the software side of things has advanced just as rapidly... For example, I had to do some noise reduction on some audio recordings a couple of weeks ago and what used to take hours to do in early iterations of Protools now only takes a few clicks in Adobe's Audition (and probably in the latest version of protools too...). Photoshop, Illustrator, Flash... All of these tools have advanced considerably in the last few years, much less the last decade.

Tablets have any number of interesting productivity software being developed for them (innovative word processors spring immediately to mind), but developers are severely limited by the hardware capabilities of those platforms... Obviously we won't see a full fledged version of Photoshop or Final Cut written for a tablet for many years to come, but I think we might see that eventually.

Re:Amazon’s Kindle Tablet Is Very Real. I’ve Seen It, Played... by cwe on Friday September 02, 2011 @06:20PM (#2955818)
I am optimistic that we will see those higher-end tools in tablet form sooner, rather than later. All it would really take is a step up in multi-touch precision. Steve Jobs has famously ripped on the stylus, but to have fine pen precision (like Wacom already offers) in additional to simple finger manipulation could end all doubt about a tablet's ability to replace a PC. It could switch from writing/drawing/manipulating with a gigantic crayon, to a fine mechanical pencil.
Re:Amazon’s Kindle Tablet Is Very Real. I’ve Seen It, Played... by joebadmo on Friday September 02, 2011 @05:54PM (#2955755)
I imagine developers will produce interesting productivity software for these platforms, but I think the form factor inherently privileges consumption. There are the ergonomics, for example. Also limited screen size, and necessarily limited input. Maybe my overall point, though, is that with development going into optimizing consumption, less goes to figuring out more robust ways to interact with a more powerful platform. I feel like the desktop GUI has stagnated over the last couple of decades, and now there's less hope than ever that there's going to be any significant innovation in this vector.
Re:Amazon’s Kindle Tablet Is Very Real. I’ve Seen It, Played... by dogwelder on Friday September 02, 2011 @08:30PM (#2956100)
It might be just an inherent lag between optimized mass consumption, and new innovative production. Scaling the Web out to the mass market happened first, next-generation innovations like Google showed up later. It is discouraging the direction is moving toward walled gardens. But there's a plus side to getting the platform out there to millions, making it more valuable to build innovations on. I can live with it as long as it's not one company owning the whole market, or a hundred small incompatible ones.

Machines optimized for creating stuff keep getting better, and aren't going away. I don't think it's necessarily bad if those machines drop to a smaller market share. It's usually a much smaller percent of people who create the apps and content that aren't crap anyway, and most of the consumer audience goes to them. Getting optimized video production machines out to the masses via cellphones is cool, but it's not really improving the average video on YouTube.

For creative ideas at the OS and interaction levels though... yeah, the platform owners need or want to own most of it. I think they're OK with jailbreaking the platform to the extent it creates a testing ground for new ideas, that they can then adopt.

Re:Amazon’s Kindle Tablet Is Very Real. I’ve Seen It, Played... by niklas_a on Saturday September 03, 2011 @04:45AM (#2956884)
I think it seems you have decided on this view and regardless of all the evidence of the contrary you are sticking with it..
Re:Amazon’s Kindle Tablet Is Very Real. I’ve Seen It, Played... by chc on Friday September 02, 2011 @05:16PM (#2955631)
There are countless times over the past several thousand years when you could have said that, but our tools for production have managed to get a bit better since 2000 BC.
Re:Amazon’s Kindle Tablet Is Very Real. I’ve Seen It, Played... by zinkem on Friday September 02, 2011 @05:16PM (#2955633)
Production isn't limited to what you can and can't do with a desktop PC... I think what OP is suggesting is that we should be using computers to help people actively build more stuff, as using them to aid in passive consumption of things others have made.
Re:Amazon’s Kindle Tablet Is Very Real. I’ve Seen It, Played... by jccodez on Friday September 02, 2011 @06:00PM (#2955767)
This whole thread is a great discussion. Commenting so I can come back and read the replies. I agree with many points regarding content creation vs. content consumption and the lines drawn between the two. I do believe the tablet is a great consumption device and that is a major function in the consumer market as well as business (even more so for business based on my experience with my software)
Re:Amazon’s Kindle Tablet Is Very Real. I’ve Seen It, Played... by sgns on Friday September 02, 2011 @10:34PM (#2956302)
Yeah!

What's easily missed too is that the 'free creativity and production for all' ethos on the web – all the good stuff that got us here! - so far largely missed out on financing for most of the traditional cultural sectors. Much of what is most highly valued in our cultures has been woefully underfinanced for our entire lives.

The iPad/app model – positioned between all these previously-existing devices and media/content like books/mags/+ – at least makes a start for a venue, a potentially enormously widely available venue, for content producers where they can be discovered – consumed/networked and get paid for their work by a simply enormous audience.

This is not necessarily at all a boon for central distribution in the sense of the old massmedia institutions!

I'd say that Apple having a lock on it – to the extent that Apple IS the central distribution channel, even if Amazon's tablet is just around the corner! – is not as important as that they provide a relatively 'flat' market for distribution – as I perceive them to do right now. To my understanding, they're basically running their stores at break-even.

With Amazon coming into the picture, it's about to become SO interesting – there will be so many different business models: sellers of Gadgets, Content and Ads!

EDIT: typos

Re:Amazon’s Kindle Tablet Is Very Real. I’ve Seen It, Played... by swlkr on Friday September 02, 2011 @10:06PM (#2956261)
I totally agree with this.
Re:Amazon’s Kindle Tablet Is Very Real. I’ve Seen It, Played... by ugh on Friday September 02, 2011 @04:58PM (#2955561)
Whut?

I just happily browsed the web, listened to podcasts, checked my RSS feeds and flicked through my Twitter stream for six hours during a train ride on my iPad. All tasks for which the iPad – or more general the tablet form factor – is ideal.

I think your argument is incoherent.

Re:Amazon’s Kindle Tablet Is Very Real. I’ve Seen It, Played... by joebadmo on Friday September 02, 2011 @05:10PM (#2955605)
You just listed four activites that are consumptive in nature. What was the last thing you produced on your iPad? Not just that, but even the way you use it is not the optimized-for case, I think. Apple wants to optimize you buying music, movies, books, etc. through iTunes and iBooks. Amazon is continuing this trend. Yes, the post-PC devices will continue to allow you to participate in the Web, necessarily, but they will privilege consumption over production, and centralized broadcast models over decentralized peer-to-peer ones. Because that's where the money is.

In contrast, the native Web on PCs is more read-write by nature. And Web technologies are making production increasingly easier.

Re:Amazon’s Kindle Tablet Is Very Real. I’ve Seen It, Played... by glassx on Friday September 02, 2011 @09:34PM (#2956212)
Well, I never really used the iPad as a consumption device. Of course I loaded it with movies, e-books and pdf papers, but it gets old fast. I still buy 4 books a month and watch Netflix on the living room exclusively... =\

However it instantly became my go-to e-mail client at work, reminds me of appointments (integrates with Exchange), holds my to-do list, has my personal issue-tracking database (Bento), browses trough our github projects, syncs with Dropbox, allows me to connect to SQL Server, is on Skype all day long and I even did some (simple) presentations on Keynote for our meetings.

I also use it for online banking when I'm not home and I have Amplitube and iRig to play guitar trough it on weekends.

I also know some people who use it in college, my sister borrows mine sometimes when she's in town and her classmate also owns one.

Granted, I'm a developer, not a manager, so those apps aren't critical to my work... but I LOVE having only two apps on my Windows Workstation: Firefox and Visual Studio. Talk about focus!

Also, I work on a university, and we're in the process of buying tablets for the whole staff. Probably not iPads, idk.

Of course, it's a weird use case, but well, it is possible...

Re:Amazon’s Kindle Tablet Is Very Real. I’ve Seen It, Played... by kreek on Friday September 02, 2011 @09:08PM (#2956170)
While I do agree it's mainly a consumption device I think it's already quite useful as a creation platform (I write/sketch out music on it). IMO it's a reflection a culture where most people are consumers not creators.

Mainstream PC use is for games, netflix, and facebook. All passive. I guess facebook is 50/50, if you call writing a never ending Christmas card update letter creative :)

Re:Amazon’s Kindle Tablet Is Very Real. I’ve Seen It, Played... by rhygar on Friday September 02, 2011 @08:38PM (#2956116)
There's a button Safari toolbar that allows you to save a bookmark as an app icon on the home screen. Your argument that Apple hates the web makes no sense.

That is a pre-tablet mindset. It wasn't long ago that GUIs were chided for being "just a fad".

"GUIs are just a fad,when their novelty wears off, users will soon return to true command-line interfaces like DOS", Jon Gladden 1986.

http://www.gladdengraphics.com/academics/GradCourses/Compute...

Re:Amazon’s Kindle Tablet Is Very Real. I’ve Seen It, Played... by joebadmo on Friday September 02, 2011 @08:57PM (#2956153)
You've misunderstood me. I don't believe tablets are a fad, if anything I'm lamenting they're inevitable success.

I also don't claim that Apple hates the web. I just think it's in their interest to privilege 1. Consumption over production; and 2. Consumption through their centrally mediated channels of distribution.

Re:Amazon’s Kindle Tablet Is Very Real. I’ve Seen It, Played... by ugh on Friday September 02, 2011 @05:18PM (#2955641)
Yes, I do that stuff. I have always done it. I now do it on a more appropriate device. It’s consumption and it’s fun. Not something to scoff at. (Mine was more a response to the central authority bullshit which is obvious nonsense.)

It doesn’t matter what I did or did not produce with the iPad. Computers are cheap, software is cheap, creation was never as easy as it is today. We are living in a golden age of content creation but content creation is not for everyone. So what.

Re:Amazon’s Kindle Tablet Is Very Real. I’ve Seen It, Played... by joebadmo on Friday September 02, 2011 @05:45PM (#2955726)
Creation is much easier today, it's true. And for a while, it looked like the old model of a few rich broadcasting/production companies making things for the rest of us to sit at home and passivel consume was going away, replaced by a model where we all have the means to produce better and better stuff, where merit, originality, expressiveness, communication were rewarded more than the means to invest the necessary capital. It looked like livejournal, flickr, deviantart - the blogging revolution - was empowering a generation to turn off the television and engage in an active, participatory way in a global conversation.

Not that passive consumption is inherently evil. I just was imagining a world where the power of creation is more evenly distributed. I'm a little sad to see that trend start to reverse.

I agree that creation isn't for everyone. But the available tools have an effect. They encourage or discourage in subtle ways. The iPad's software keyboard imposes just a slight amount of friction on inputting text. That has an effect. It matters, to some however small degree, and it aggregates with every other way that Apple optimizes consumption over production.

On centralized authority: again, the way you are consuming content is not the case Apple is optimizing for. They have allowed it, but their most sanctioned way is for you to buy content from their partners through their distribution channels. It's not a complete restriction, but an optimization of a certain model through UI. TFA's description of the new Kindle seems to follow, and, indeed, to go farther down this path.

Meta: Not that I'm particularly offended, but why take such an abrasive tone? "Central authority bullshit," "obvious nonsense"? Do you simply not consider it a possibility that you didn't fully understand what I was trying to say, either because I communicated it poorly or because it doesn't align with your preconceived notions? I'm actually quite happy to be having this discussion, as it's one I've tried to have many times, but never got much uptake. But, why start with such a dismissive tone? I've seen so many threads start with mild, mutual abrasiveness and spiral quickly into full-out flamewar. Why take a step down that path? Is it so hard to be overtly civil? Honest question.

Re:Amazon’s Kindle Tablet Is Very Real. I’ve Seen It, Played... by ugh on Friday September 02, 2011 @06:01PM (#2955770)
The iPad and other tablets are not great tools for writing. Emails or comments on HN (another one of those things that wasn’t possible for very many people one or two decades ago) work great, longer or more complicated stuff quite often not. There are, however, quite a few use cases where tablets are better tools for content creation than, say, a PC or at least could become better tools given time and software.

But I feel you are ignoring the larger picture. Tablets are currently third devices and prices have developed in such a way to actually allow for a third device. What’s wrong with a consumption oriented device when what most people were already doing was consuming?

Given that creation is as simple as it never before has been and that all the tablets actually can receive all of the created content I just do not understand how tablets could threaten content creation in any way whatsoever. It seems absurd to me.

Tablets are freaking awesome for content consumption of any kind and they can do quite a few other things. They are also cheap enough to make it possible to also buy a very capable PC. I … I really don’t understand how that could have any negative impact.

(Meta: I actually feel very bad about my tone now. I sometimes start to furiously write stuff like that and I always regret it but hardly ever learn. I’m very sorry for my tone. It was a mistake.)

Re:Amazon’s Kindle Tablet Is Very Real. I’ve Seen It, Played... by joebadmo on Friday September 02, 2011 @06:48PM (#2955893)
Again, I agree that it's not one-dimensional. Tablets are making the consumption and light interaction aspects of computing accessible to a huge section of people for whom they were inaccessible before. And that's great. But the PC represented a tool that made the production aspect of computing accessible to a lot more people, too. And the web was a continuation of that trend.

Tablets look like the end of that side to me. It looks like an optimization of the consumption aspect at the expense of the creation aspect.

You may see it as a third device, but I think a lot of people see it as a replacement device, and those are exactly the people who could benefit most from tools that make it easier for them to produce things.

I think my ultimate lament was that the way the market works, of course large companies are going to privilege consumption, because they can make more money that way.

(Meta: Thanks, I accept and appreciate the apology!)

Re:Amazon’s Kindle Tablet Is Very Real. I’ve Seen It, Played... by ugh on Friday September 02, 2011 @06:52PM (#2955907)
At least Apple, I think, sells music and videos and books and apps because people want them. Sure, they make some money (not much compared to the rest of the business) but they mostly do it to turn their devices into something people actually like to use.

People want music, want videos, want books, want apps. The market gives them what they want. This is not a case of the market delivering something consumers don’t actually like.

This is not a conspiracy of big companies to dumb people down. People are already that way. The PC didn’t help with that one bit and tablets certainly also won’t help.

Again: there is no problem.

Re:Amazon’s Kindle Tablet Is Very Real. I’ve Seen It, Played... by joebadmo on Friday September 02, 2011 @07:22PM (#2955974)
I think you could have used the same argument for the media distribution model that existed before PCs were widely accessible: look, everyone is sitting on the couch, watching television, clearly that's what they want. But once we gave a lot of people access to PCs, we saw an explosion of interaction, content creation, communication, participation.

I don't think it's an overt conspiracy, it's just self-interest and centralized resources and power.

I believe that PCs did change the way people are, and the way they think. Not everyone, maybe not even a majority, at least not overtly. But I think it had a profound effect on the culture. I believe the Web made a difference. I believe the ways we have to access the Web make a difference.

You can point to dumb people continuing to be dumb and say there is no problem. I see a problem, and my solution is to talk about it, to try to get influential people to think about it, and think about making tools to empower creation by the technically lay (like me).

Re:Amazon’s Kindle Tablet Is Very Real. I’ve Seen It, Played... by ugh on Friday September 02, 2011 @07:38PM (#2956013)
You do know Napster? You do know The Pirate Bay? People want access to mainstream music, mainstream videos and mainstream books, no matter the device. If the big companies don’t give it to them people will go to great lengths to get said access. That’s just how it is, always has been, always will be. You are again and again creating false dichotomies.

The media distribution model of all the mainstream stuff is not different between PCs and tablets. Tablets might be a bit more convenient when it comes to buying stuff (probably not even that) but that’s it. You can get mainstream stuff on both. People want mainstream stuff on both. Napster and all the later filesharing is a testament to that.

But that’s not the whole story. Far from it. All the other content out there is perfectly accessible with tablets. They are just as good at accessing non-mainstream content as PCs. They are not limited in that respect. They all have awesome browsers (the most modern stuff you can get), they allow you to download podcasts or to subscribe to RSS feeds. It’s all possible.

Tablets are the content consumption Yin to the content creation Yang.

I just don’t understand how one could see that any other way.

Re:Amazon’s Kindle Tablet Is Very Real. I’ve Seen It, Played... by joebadmo on Friday September 02, 2011 @08:46PM (#2956130)
Napster, at least (I don't know about Pirate Bay), also enabled a class of underground/amateur music by giving it a distribution channel that never existed before. In a way that iTunes does not. I think, at least to some degree, you have the causality backwards. People consumed mainstream content because that was what was largely available to them. How much of mainstream content consumption has been replaced by amateur content on the web? As the culture at large gets more and more used to this, I think the idea of mainstream will hold less and less power. Of course, unless devices like tablets continue to convince them that the mainstream is the only valuable stream.

The content is available on tablets, too, but the device subtly privileges its own centrally mediated distribution channels. I believe this privilege will only get stronger.

Re:Amazon’s Kindle Tablet Is Very Real. I’ve Seen It, Played... by ugh on Saturday September 03, 2011 @03:00AM (#2956721)
Getting rare music through file sharing sucked. I know it, I was trying to get it. The iTunes music store has a greater selection of rare music than any file sharing I ever tried in the early 2000s.

Of course, unless devices like tablets continue to convince them that the mainstream is the only valuable stream.

Why should that happen? Why? I don’t understand. Non-mainstream content is a first class citizen on tablets.

I … I really don’t get it. You are postulating a effect that seems so wildly implausible and absolutely absurd to me.

Re:Amazon’s Kindle Tablet Is Very Real. I’ve Seen It, Played... by saturdaysaint on Friday September 02, 2011 @06:55PM (#2955920)
I agree with the thrust of your argument. Many are drawing a false sense of opposition between consumption and creation. Listening to music (consuming) became insanely easy in the last decade, but, surprise surprise, the tools to create music improved just as dramatically. Just as importantly, the ease of consuming enabled musicians to draw on an unprecedented pool of influences - many genres have undergone wild transformations as artists have been able to access more inspiration with increased ease.

Some here might dismiss TV completely, but many consider this a "Golden Age" for television writing, too. Is it a stretch to think that almost unlimited access to the history of film might actually be inspiring more and more people to write smarter material for popular media?

Re:Amazon’s Kindle Tablet Is Very Real. I’ve Seen It, Played... by sgns on Saturday September 03, 2011 @12:42AM (#2956509)
Yep, and differently from tv, consumption on the iPad is much more likely to be 'relatively' peer-to-peer. If we pay for content, there will surely soon be more producers around, given an easy-enough distribution chain/a flat-enough distribution channel. Very different from the TV business and it's intricate hierarchies and institutions!

I sure think this IS a Golden Age. The bizarre and 'negative' traits, and our moments of distress, easily hide it for us - but it's here and now. We just need to learn how to create a society out of the jumble (ie, planet) that's out there...

Re:Amazon’s Kindle Tablet Is Very Real. I’ve Seen It, Played... by Steko on Friday September 02, 2011 @06:36PM (#2955870)
I think the disconnect here is you're simply seeing the ipad as a pc replacement when the reality is the ipad is a new category that while partially replacing PCs also can partially replaces many other things: books, magazines, newspapers, the radio on your desk, the bedside clock, photo albums, etc.

Someone like Ugh or myself sees you call all of this awesome a "step back" and laughs.

I think you've sold the iPad short too early. Intent or not it will be a huge device for content creation the same way the iphone is a huge device for content creation -- the best camera you have is the one you have with you and as Flickr attests, iPhone 4 is used by millions every day for creation.

Similarly the iPad will be huge and Apple has already recognized this with signature first party apps like GarageBand, iMovie, Pages, Numbers. I have a feeling in years to come a lot of musicians will say that the best keyboard, drum set, guitar, etc that you have is the one you have with you.

Do you like to write sometimes? There's an app for that. When you're not at your desk will the best typewriter be the one you have with you? Probably.

Do you like to draw and doodle sometimes? There's an app for that. When you're not at your desk will the best drawing and painting studio be the one you have with you? Probably.

Re:Amazon’s Kindle Tablet Is Very Real. I’ve Seen It, Played... by sgns on Friday September 02, 2011 @10:15PM (#2956280)
Awesome take – it seems to suggest that what we're seeing is the creation of a new mobile nexus for people's work, slowly replacing the desktop as the center of our 'tool lives'.

EDIT: Replacing the desktop – AND drawing plenty of other old technologies into this new one.

Re:Amazon’s Kindle Tablet Is Very Real. I’ve Seen It, Played... by cwe on Friday September 02, 2011 @06:26PM (#2955837)
This whole trope about creation vs consumption is pointing fingers in the wrong direction: why blame the iPad, when a lot of the creativity is going into tweets and likes? You mention 3 older social networks as being some kind of revolution, well, what about FB, twitter, G+, etc? We are all consuming each others creations, so the whole centralized authority bit is overblown. That's not to rip on social tools, or the iPad. Just pointing out that your global conversation has evolved, not died.
Re:Amazon’s Kindle Tablet Is Very Real. I’ve Seen It, Played... by joebadmo on Friday September 02, 2011 @06:57PM (#2955922)
I think the iPad is one vector. I think the social networks you mention are another. That also feels to me like a closing down, or a narrowing. I think Facebook, to take the biggest example, restricts and narrows and makes shallow our communication.[0] It reduces our interactions to shallow, superficial comments, likes, low-fidelity photos, etc. In its way, I think the move toward closed social networks is also a step backward from the open exchange of ideas that blogging represented. And I think this is partially due to the tools we've made, too.

[0]: I wrote more on that here: http://blog.byjoemoon.com/post/3112676038/the-end-of-comment... which was a response to an essay by Zadie Smith.[1]

[1]:http://www.nybooks.com/articles/archives/2010/nov/25/generat...

Re:Amazon’s Kindle Tablet Is Very Real. I’ve Seen It, Played... by rryan on Friday September 02, 2011 @05:07PM (#2955596)
You seem to have misunderstood. joebadmo was saying that the post-PC era seems to be more about content consumption than content production. You responded in the negative by saying you spent 6 hours consuming content, which doesn't make much sense because that would be anecdotal evidence in favor of joebadmo's argument.
Re:Amazon’s Kindle Tablet Is Very Real. I’ve Seen It, Played... by ugh on Friday September 02, 2011 @05:20PM (#2955650)
We're going back to something more like the broadcast television model, where a more or less centralized authority produces the content for passive users to consume.

That’s the sentence I was responding to. Central authority bullshit and all.

Re:Amazon’s Kindle Tablet Is Very Real. I’ve Seen It, Played... by abstractbill on Friday September 02, 2011 @05:07PM (#2955593)
All the things you just listed are forms of consumption, not production.

The argument seems coherent enough to me. I'm not entirely convinced about the "centralized authority" part, but the "tools for consumption advancing faster than tools for production" seems true (and inevitable).

Re:Amazon’s Kindle Tablet Is Very Real. I’ve Seen It, Played... by ugh on Friday September 02, 2011 @05:14PM (#2955621)
Improving consumption doesn’t imply much about creation.

So what if consumption is easier? Does that mean less people will create something? Why? Creating something doesn’t get harder because consumption gets easier. I don’t see the causal connection.

(That central authority bullshit is just patent nonsense.)

Oh, and our tools for creation still are rapidly improving. Prices for computers have gone nothing but down. People are today able to buy a great PC and a tablet for the same price of a PC ten years ago. Software has become hugely more accessible, hardware has become so much more capable. Creating stuff was never – never – as easy as it is today.

We are living in a golden age of content creation and in a golden of content consumption. Tablets will help with that, not hinder.

Re:Amazon’s Kindle Tablet Is Very Real. I’ve Seen It, Played... by orangecat on Friday September 02, 2011 @07:31PM (#2956000)
Creating something doesn’t get harder because consumption gets easier.

You're absolutely right that there's no necessary dichotomy, but in practice that's what's happening. The iPad could be an awesome platform for a Squeak-like development environment where you create and program a bunch of objects and have them interact with each other. But Apple won't allow such an app in their store which makes it unavailable to the large majority of users, and if they had their way jailbreaking your iPad to run it would be a federal crime.

Oh, and our tools for creation still are rapidly improving. Prices for computers have gone nothing but down. People are today able to buy a great PC and a tablet for the same price of a PC ten years ago.

That's true, today. But if tablets replace PCs for most people as many are predicting, PC prices will go up substantially: partly due to reduced economies of scale, and partly because reducing the market to professionals and geeks will allow more price discrimination.

Re:Amazon’s Kindle Tablet Is Very Real. I’ve Seen It, Played... by ugh on Friday September 02, 2011 @07:41PM (#2956018)
Apple is not the only company in the world.

Tablets will improve.

You predictions of doom are way overblown.

Re:Amazon’s Kindle Tablet Is Very Real. I’ve Seen It, Played... by griftah on Friday September 02, 2011 @08:54PM (#2956149)
Programming is not a content creation.
Re:Amazon’s Kindle Tablet Is Very Real. I’ve Seen It, Played... by Karunamon on Saturday September 03, 2011 @12:30AM (#2956490)
The hell it isn't.
Re:Amazon’s Kindle Tablet Is Very Real. I’ve Seen It, Played... by peterbraden on Friday September 02, 2011 @05:10PM (#2955606)
I think your reply exemplifies his argument - you used an ipod to 'consume' media for si hours, rather than creating, which older computers may have been better suited for.
Re:Amazon’s Kindle Tablet Is Very Real. I’ve Seen It, Played... by ugh on Friday September 02, 2011 @05:28PM (#2955676)
Wha? If I want to create I can. It’s never been as easy as today. You are creating a false dichotomy.

The content I was consuming on my iPad – and that was my point – did not come from a central authority (no more than before when I consumed on my Laptop) and it’s enabled by the cheap tools available for content creation today.

I was listening to one awesome podcast by a guy who made podcasting his job and survives (extremely successfully) from donations alone.

I was browsing awesome webcomics from people who would never had a chance to make their comics accessible to as many people as they can today.

I was reading awesome Harry Potter fan fiction and tales from a lawyer doing his job.

All not possible only a decade (maybe two in some cases) ago. We are living in a golden ago of content creation. To be worried about tablets in that context is – sorry – crazy.

Re:Amazon’s Kindle Tablet Is Very Real. I’ve Seen It, Played... by varunsrin on Friday September 02, 2011 @05:53PM (#2955750)
Was the podcast created by a guy on a iPad?

How about the webcomic, do you think it was done in the iPad / Android version photoshop?

Was the HP fan fiction typed on a tablet keyboard?

The point the OP is trying to make is not that tablets discourage production of content at a higher level. It's that companies are spending a lot of money improving consumption device /software , instead of creative devices/software

It's that there is more money is creating consumption devices, and most of the R&D is going into creating better and better consumption devices, with less focus on creation better tools for production.

This is however a natural state of the free market - creating consumer-oriented consumption devices is suddenly a lot more profitable than creating devices targeted and production of content, and therefore that is where we are seeing the most innovation/investment right now.

Re:Amazon’s Kindle Tablet Is Very Real. I’ve Seen It, Played... by ugh on Friday September 02, 2011 @07:48PM (#2956032)
No it wasn’t. The iPad is the wrong tool for creating that stuff. But it is awesome for consumption.

Argh. This is sooooo frustrating. Why does everyone believe that it’s either the iPad or nothing? That just doesn’t make any sense at all. I don’t get it.

Re:Amazon’s Kindle Tablet Is Very Real. I’ve Seen It, Played... by sofal on Friday September 02, 2011 @08:47PM (#2956134)
People who otherwise wouldn't consider themselves content creators can be inspired to become such if their devices come with content-creation features. As the divide increases between content-consuming devices and content-creation devices, more and more people are going to opt for the less expensive consuming devices and just not get the other kind, as they don't anticipate in advance a desire to create. Thus the barrier for becoming a content-creator could go from "hey neat, look what I can make with this!" to having to buy a separate device first. If the creation abilities come packaged with the consuming device, more people are going to feel empowered make the easy leap, perhaps discovering a new passion in the process.
Re:Amazon’s Kindle Tablet Is Very Real. I’ve Seen It, Played... by varunsrin on Saturday September 03, 2011 @01:46AM (#2956603)
"The iPad is the wrong tool for creating that stuff. But it is awesome for consumption."

Exactly, OP's point is that most R&D by large co's these days is focused on building consumption devices similar to the iPad. About 10 years ago, most R&D was around enterprises/PC's, and that benefited both producers & consumers of content.

No one is arguing that one particular model is right - it was simply an observation of where R&D is focused these days, and what that means for producers of content.

Re:Amazon’s Kindle Tablet Is Very Real. I’ve Seen It, Played... by ugh on Saturday September 03, 2011 @03:10AM (#2956735)
Some of the R&D. The world is a big, big place. Tablets are not some big black hole that suck away all brainpower from all other tasks.
Re:Amazon’s Kindle Tablet Is Very Real. I’ve Seen It, Played... by crenshaw on Friday September 02, 2011 @09:13PM (#2956182)
Aren't all these available to people with desktop/laptop computers? Aren't there something like an order and a half magnitude more of those than tablets?

And this was all possible a decade ago. There were at least 50M people with web connections a year ago.

Re:Amazon’s Kindle Tablet Is Very Real. I’ve Seen It, Played... by ugh on Saturday September 03, 2011 @02:54AM (#2956712)
Way of missing the point. Also: There were no podcasts and hardly any blogs a decade ago. Both exist today (in their massive numbers) because the tools for content creation and distribution have become simpler to use and cheaper.
Re:Amazon’s Kindle Tablet Is Very Real. I’ve Seen It, Played... by crenshaw on Saturday September 03, 2011 @02:06PM (#2957752)
But none of those things you mention has anything to do with tablets.
Re:Amazon’s Kindle Tablet Is Very Real. I’ve Seen It, Played... by ugh on Saturday September 03, 2011 @02:09PM (#2957762)
Yes! Exactly! Because looking only at tablets is wrong.