News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:Three loud climate warning signals by hatware on Tuesday December 14, 2021 @10:41AM (#29552761)
Oh look, another article asking ordinary citizens to shoulder responsibility for something that is almost entirely perpetrated by corporations.

Yawn.

Re:Three loud climate warning signals by gruez on Tuesday December 14, 2021 @10:42AM (#29552773)
Are corporations emitting carbon for fun, or are they doing it at the behest of "ordinary citizens"?
Re:Three loud climate warning signals by hatware on Tuesday December 14, 2021 @11:11AM (#29553175)
Neither.

I believe they are doing it to make money. Which is perfectly alright.

Isn't the government supposed to _evaluate_ and _regulate_ the market in order to account for the externalities created by X, Y, and Z corporations? If they are not doing this, what do we do? Cause we've been voting the same cronies in cycle after cycle, with the same result.

What is the definition of insanity? Our reality.

Re:Three loud climate warning signals by CameronNemo on Tuesday December 14, 2021 @01:39PM (#29555441)
Maybe the fact that two of the largest coal exporting states have the smallest populations and largest proportional influences in the Senate has something to do why voting isn't working. The game is rigged.
Re:Three loud climate warning signals by gruez on Tuesday December 14, 2021 @05:58PM (#29559299)
>Maybe the fact that two of the largest coal exporting states have the smallest populations and largest proportional influences in the Senate

Wyoming and Vermont are the largest coal exporting states? Based on https://www.statista.com/statistics/380664/leading-us-states..., it looks like the top 5 coal exporting states are ranked 39, 24, 5, 6, and 12 in terms of population.

Re:Three loud climate warning signals by CameronNemo on Tuesday December 14, 2021 @07:46PM (#29560442)
https://www.mining-technology.com/features/five-largest-coal...

This has Wyoming and WV as the biggest producers. Could differ from exports, but in retrospect production is probably more important. Those states are quite small. Vermont is too. Yet they have 6 senators between them.

Re:Three loud climate warning signals by pessimizer on Tuesday December 14, 2021 @12:19PM (#29554244)
X, Y, and Z corporations are the ones that finance those cronies. Good luck running against them without either being completely ignored or painted as an anti-semitic child molester by any media that could reach more than 100 voters.
Re:Three loud climate warning signals by acuozzo on Tuesday December 14, 2021 @11:51AM (#29553850)
The issue is that, in many cases, corporations create the problems that their products solve.

Stroads, for instance, only came about after a ton of corporate spending on propaganda and lobbying to increase demand for automobiles.

If you contaminate the water supply of a city in order to create demand for your water purification product, then is the resulting consumer demand your fault or theirs?

Re:Three loud climate warning signals by gfxgirl on Thursday December 16, 2021 @06:08AM (#29577089)
Most people I know want a house in the suburbs. Their own land. A place for pets, a garage for cars, no shared walls so they can watch tv loud or play things like rockband (old reference but clearly not something most people can play in an apartment). they like their suburban neighborhoods where they get to know their neighbors and their kids can play with other kids in their front yard, etc....

no need for evil corps for this lifestyle to be appealing to lots of people

Re:Three loud climate warning signals by postsantum on Tuesday December 14, 2021 @10:54AM (#29552915)
Behest of ordinary citizens is easily swayed by media, which are owned by corporations. Enjoy your nuclear hysteria while important people keep visiting Climate Change Conferences in their private jets
Re:Three loud climate warning signals by user-the-name on Tuesday December 14, 2021 @11:01AM (#29553034)
They are doing it because it's cheap and legal. Nobody is asking corporations to do it. We are allowing them to get away with it.

We need to stop allowing it.

Re:Three loud climate warning signals by camgunz on Tuesday December 14, 2021 @11:24AM (#29553357)
They actively corrupt democratic governments and disseminate misinformation in order to keep making money by destroying the planet. Exxon infamously supports cap and trade because they know it's politically non-viable [1]. Confident no consumer is asking them to do this.

[1]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5v1Yg6XejyE

Re:Three loud climate warning signals by jandrese on Tuesday December 14, 2021 @12:55PM (#29554783)
Everybody, corporations and individuals, need to do their part to fight climate change. We are all living on the same planet. If corporations aren't doing their part they need to be called out, but that is no excuse for you to shirk your duty.
Re:Three loud climate warning signals by rocgf on Tuesday December 14, 2021 @10:54AM (#29552922)
I honestly never understood this argument.

Corporations don't just emit greenhouse gases for the fun of it, like some sort of villain, they do it because they produce the stuff that we, the "ordinary citizens" buy like mad every Christmas or whenever we have $200 extra in our bank accounts.

Corporations will do anything permitted by the law and that's no secret. That includes evading taxes, sub-living wages or pollution. Ordinary citizens allow this by buying the products of those corporations and by not voting for more green policies.

To assign the blame solely on corporations and remove "ordinary citizens" from the equation is short-sighted at best.

Re:Three loud climate warning signals by jbotz on Tuesday December 14, 2021 @11:23AM (#29553348)
> Corporations will do anything permitted by the law ...

A bit off-topic, but corporations will also do things not permitted by the law if the potential penalties are likely to be significantly lower than the potential profits.

And, of course, they also expend significant resources to shape the law to serve their interests, and appear to be significantly more effective at this than "ordinary citizens".

Re:Three loud climate warning signals by pessimizer on Tuesday December 14, 2021 @12:25PM (#29554330)
Ordinary citizens could always opt out of supporting this situation by killing themselves, but on an individual basis I don't think that would make much of a difference, and killing yourself before someone can kill you is a pyrrhic victory.

The reason people blame corporations is because it's very difficult to find the people who own them, and because they have a realistic view of power.

Re:Three loud climate warning signals by user-the-name on Tuesday December 14, 2021 @11:00AM (#29553012)
Well, look, you said it yourself:

"will do anything permitted by the law"

Exactly. So start changing the law. Blaming consumers will get us nowhere. Change the law. Enforce the law. Force corporations to act.

Re:Three loud climate warning signals by lotsofpulp on Tuesday December 14, 2021 @11:32AM (#29553484)
The only effective law would be a sufficient tax on fossil fuels to force reduction in consumption.

But it will be heavily unpopular as it will reduce people’s quality of life in the short term, even for the rest of their life, plus globally, other populations would be happy to pick up the demand.

Re:Three loud climate warning signals by user-the-name on Tuesday December 14, 2021 @11:46AM (#29553725)
And?
Re:Three loud climate warning signals by lotsofpulp on Tuesday December 14, 2021 @01:19PM (#29555161)
I was not contradicting you, just expanding on my thoughts for what the relevant laws would need to be.
Re:Three loud climate warning signals by AnIdiotOnTheNet on Tuesday December 14, 2021 @12:06PM (#29554098)
Consumers are also the ones voting for the politicians who aren't changing the law. So again, it's on us. We need to actually want to change before we actually will.
Re:Three loud climate warning signals by user-the-name on Tuesday December 14, 2021 @05:00PM (#29558562)
Can't vote for someone who doesn't exist.
Re:Three loud climate warning signals by agumonkey on Tuesday December 14, 2021 @11:13AM (#29553197)
I think I've seen a sociology video talking about a pyramid. The base needs the top and vice versa.

I don't like citizen going crazy on corporations (which I despise often). Because most of the product they buy are conscious and free decision. Blame corps for tapping into human reflexes (rule 1 of any commercial anything).

Re:Three loud climate warning signals by hatware on Tuesday December 14, 2021 @11:07AM (#29553114)
I don't think that spreading the externalities of climate change onto ordinary citizens socialistically is the right approach.

For you, the buck stops at whatever citizens currently exist on the planet/continent/country/state/city/town.

For me, the buck stops at the corporations and governments who are more than responsible for the current mess we are in. You do realize these chucklef*cks are still flying around on private jets, right?

Re:Three loud climate warning signals by brockmuellers on Tuesday December 14, 2021 @11:25AM (#29553385)
These two things can both be true. As you say, assigning blame primarily to citizens is just incorrect - corporations/governments have the most direct effect on the problem. At the same time, suggesting that the actions of citizens are meaningless until corporations/governments act is demoralizing and obscures people's power and agency. Given that most of us are ordinary citizens, shouldn't we use the levers available to us, and encourage others to do the same? For example, voting, advocacy, reducing consumption, etc.
Re:Three loud climate warning signals by wing-_-nuts on Tuesday December 14, 2021 @12:41PM (#29554569)
I don't recall reading that. Could you post some quotes to back your claim?
Re:Three loud climate warning signals by 908B64B197 on Tuesday December 14, 2021 @03:23PM (#29557039)
... And the countries that are enabling this pollution.

It's interesting to look at the long term trends, especially when looking at some of the largest economies on the planet.

Comparing the US[0] and China[1], the US has:

- Decreasing per capita emissions in the US starting in 1973 (-27%)

- A decrease in the countries emission starting in 2007 (-13%)

Meanwhile for the same period China has had

- a 7x increase per capita since 1973 (+532%)

- 48% increase for its global emissions since 2007

If a country decides to impose a burden on itself by doing the right thing and going green (like the EU and US are doing) then China can just bring on more coal plants online to bring the price of their goods down and crush the competition. Nobody in the western world can compete with that.

It's time we start holding governments accountable and impose tariffs and immigration quotas on misbehaving countries.

[0] https://ourworldindata.org/co2/country/united-states

[1] https://ourworldindata.org/co2/country/china

Re:Three loud climate warning signals by mcv on Tuesday December 14, 2021 @11:20AM (#29553300)
What do you mean: yawn? At the very least, you could vote for a government that lets those corporations pay for their pollution. One way or the other, you do have a responsibility here, because the way the system works right now, corporations only care about short-term profit, and right now that means they pollute. They need to feel the consequences of this pollution financially, or they'll never change.

And it needs to happen soon too, because we've already squandered 30 year of doing nothing.

Re:Three loud climate warning signals by usui on Tuesday December 14, 2021 @11:25AM (#29553378)
Just because the OP yawns at a trite post doesn’t mean he or she doesn’t care about the issues you mentioned. The only thing that isn’t cared about is deflection of responsibility.