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Re:All sound recordings prior to 1923 will enter the US publ... by t-writescode on Tuesday December 07, 2021 @12:27PM (#29475456)
2-3 years is no time at all. Someone could hand a movie studio a script in hopes of it being made a movie, the movie studio could wait 4 years, and then make the movie, with no harm to them whatsoever.
Re:All sound recordings prior to 1923 will enter the US publ... by grishka on Tuesday December 07, 2021 @12:33PM (#29475549)
Huh. A movie studio. Yes, my proposal also has a nice side effect of filtering out those who are in it for the money, not self-expression. The world would become a better place if there were no "entertainment industry".
Re:All sound recordings prior to 1923 will enter the US publ... by codyb on Tuesday December 07, 2021 @02:00PM (#29476730)
No entertainment industry? So... nobody could sit and create a movie studio or a record label?

What a weird thing to rail against. I'm certainly unconvinced the world would be magically better without people organizing to produce content.

Maybe there's some issues with copyrights, but as far as I can tell, almost any organization would attempt to preserve profits. We, as a people, then go through and create legislation which curbs rampant abuses whether that's environmental pollution, or unsafe kids' toys, or overly lengthy copyright claims.

But the idea people can't get together and make movies, that's a new one.

Re:All sound recordings prior to 1923 will enter the US publ... by grishka on Tuesday December 07, 2021 @02:36PM (#29477189)
> almost any organization would attempt to preserve profits.

Often at the expense of everything else, including common sense. Despite their current revenues already covering their expenses, many times over.

> But the idea people can't get together and make movies, that's a new one.

They can, but they will own shares in them, either split equally or proportionally to their contribution.

Re:All sound recordings prior to 1923 will enter the US publ... by californical on Tuesday December 07, 2021 @03:05PM (#29477516)
How are there shares if there’s no copyright? Do you own 10% of a movie that’s worth $0 since anyone can copy and distribute it for no cost?
Re:All sound recordings prior to 1923 will enter the US publ... by grishka on Tuesday December 07, 2021 @03:28PM (#29477789)
There is copyright, but it's non-transferable and only lasts for 2-3 years. After that time, yes, anyone can copy and distribute it.

My idea here is that you would have the option of either paying right now, or waiting when the copyright expires and getting it legally for free. In our current system people don't even consider that copyrights have an expiry date, they operate as if they're effectively indefinite. And the current system doesn't work anyway — the majority of the society just isn't having it. Everyone has pirated something at some point.

Re:All sound recordings prior to 1923 will enter the US publ... by t-writescode on Tuesday December 07, 2021 @03:51PM (#29478055)
I think the big problem here is that 2-3 years is almost no time at all. With 2-3 years, basically everyone will wait for the next book in the Game of Thrones series to come out of costing money.

Covid has been nearly 2 years, and for many of us it feels both like yesterday and also like forever ago, for example.

And then you'll have people that want to watch the movie of something, so they're willing to pay the video company for instant access, but the movie is based off a script someone wrote, or a book someone wrote, and that book is at least 2 years old.

RR Martin would make zero dollars from Game of Thrones, for example.

Re:All sound recordings prior to 1923 will enter the US publ... by andrekandre on Tuesday December 07, 2021 @06:30PM (#29479531)

  > RR Martin would make zero dollars from Game of Thrones, for example.
idk... how many people are still watching game of thrones?

whats the long tail look like for popular books?

my impression was, most books that make any money are hugely popular for a short time, then basically fall off a "sales cliff"... i wonder if anyones done any comprehensive stories about this subject.

Re:All sound recordings prior to 1923 will enter the US publ... by t-writescode on Tuesday December 07, 2021 @08:35PM (#29480372)
My point was that RR Martin wrote books, and then *movies* were made off the books. If the copyright period is 2-3 years, then a movie company would just need to wait a couple years and RR Martin would get zero dollars for his work (except the small number of people that buy his book) but more people watch movies and shows, so they would be willing to pay the premium for the movies based off his content just a couple years later.
Re:All sound recordings prior to 1923 will enter the US publ... by account42 on Wednesday December 08, 2021 @06:26AM (#29483498)
Most video games already quickly become cheaper much less than 2-3 years after release. Some are even given away at some point. Yet most sales still happen close to release. The expectation that the average consumer has the patience to wait for 2-3 years if they can get something now for a reasonable price is odd.
Re:All sound recordings prior to 1923 will enter the US publ... by notJim on Tuesday December 07, 2021 @12:48PM (#29475764)
People who are in it for self-expression need to pay the bills too.
Re:All sound recordings prior to 1923 will enter the US publ... by grishka on Tuesday December 07, 2021 @01:13PM (#29476091)
They usually start self-expressing just for themselves, so they still have a job. Most video bloggers started this exact way — first a hobby, then they quit their job and turned their vlogging into a Serious Business™ with obnoxious sponsorships, a studio, a ton of ridiculously expensive equipment, and optionally a crew.
Re:All sound recordings prior to 1923 will enter the US publ... by bena on Tuesday December 07, 2021 @03:07PM (#29477549)
If you are in it for self-expression, you're entirely free to self-express to your heart's content. Copyright doesn't matter, publishers don't matter, studios don't matter.

The minute you want to express yourself to others, you're no longer in it for self-expression.

And regardless of your opinion on what should and should not exist, people should be fairly compensated for their endeavors, even if those endeavors are to create leisure activities for others.

Copyright is an attempt to enable creators to get compensation for their work. This is one thing the people who rail about the ease of reproduction miss. It was never about the difficulty of reproduction, it was always about the difficulty of creation.

How do we reward that when we are allowed to freely copy their efforts without the need to consider their contribution? It's one of the few things I like about a subscription or Patreon model. We're paying directly for the effort of creation.

Re:All sound recordings prior to 1923 will enter the US publ... by cgio on Tuesday December 07, 2021 @05:24PM (#29478987)
How were artists living before copyrights? We’ve had quite a few of them delivering masterpieces. So we can reward efforts the same ways as before, art will not die just be less profitable maybe. If reproduction is easy what do we as a society earn by making it harder artificially? I don’t believe any other worker is having these benefits. You do your job, paid for your effort by someone willing to do so, and then go on with your life. That includes other creative occupations and most of the employees of e.g. movie studios. Are we fairly compensating _them_ for their work?
Re:All sound recordings prior to 1923 will enter the US publ... by bena on Wednesday December 08, 2021 @09:53AM (#29485394)
Through patronage and performance. And since reproduction was difficult, you had to have these people around. You couldn't pick and choose among a thousand SoundCloud composers to find a song you liked. You needed a Mozart or Bach. You needed orchestras because recordings don't exist.

But now, it is dead simple to propagate someone's work once they've finished the act of creation.

And this isn't a discussion if others are getting their fair due. Even if they are not, it does not mean we should shaft everyone. Everyone should be fairly compensated for their work. But not enforcing some level of protection for the creation of art is pretty much ensuring no one is compensated for their work. Fairly or not.

Re:All sound recordings prior to 1923 will enter the US publ... by andrekandre on Tuesday December 07, 2021 @06:37PM (#29479585)

  > That includes other creative occupations and most of the employees of e.g. movie studios. Are we fairly compensating _them_ for their work?
what i find really interesting is, why is it that a company owns what i make there automatically?

afaik i didn't sign any copyright assignment in my work contract...

i wonder what the legal basis is for that?

Re:All sound recordings prior to 1923 will enter the US publ... by cgio on Tuesday December 07, 2021 @08:26PM (#29480337)
You most probably did. At least I know I did. And the point is exactly that, instead of protecting creative output copyright is locking it down by capitalising it. Rather than creativity being a flow of meaningful communication and exchange at the level of ideas and aesthetics, it’s becoming a stock with ongoing financial and not creative dividends. You will have trouble using your creative outputs when moving between companies. Unless you start all over again and from that perspective it is a weird motivator for creativity, albeit one oriented to getting you where you started from rather than one step further.
Re:All sound recordings prior to 1923 will enter the US publ... by andrekandre on Wednesday December 08, 2021 @07:32AM (#29483956)

  > And the point is exactly that, instead of protecting creative output copyright is locking it down by capitalising it. Rather than creativity being a flow of meaningful communication and exchange at the level of ideas and aesthetics, it’s becoming a stock with ongoing financial and not creative dividends. 
on that note, there are some proposals (superdistribution - brad cox, xanadu - ted nelson, etc) that would allow any works to be licensed from/to anyone via micro transactions.... but i've never heard of anyone actually trying to do such a thing at scale.

sounds super cool if it could work... all the stuff i made, when reused somewhere by a company, i get a residual... the more valuable, the more used, and the more i get... that could be pretty awesome (hypothetically)

Re:All sound recordings prior to 1923 will enter the US publ... by tomcam on Tuesday December 07, 2021 @08:39PM (#29480387)
Is there something wrong with creating solely for money and not self-expression?
Re:All sound recordings prior to 1923 will enter the US publ... by account42 on Wednesday December 08, 2021 @06:27AM (#29483507)
Not inherently. What is wrong is asking society to bend over backwards to enable that.
Re:All sound recordings prior to 1923 will enter the US publ... by SpelingBeeChamp on Wednesday December 08, 2021 @02:14AM (#29482039)
What if anything do you watch for entertainment?