News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:Amazon is bypassing supply chain chaos with chartered shi... by DantesKite on Sunday December 05, 2021 @06:32PM (#29454425)
Amazon is such a remarkable company. I may have underestimated their long-term prospects. I've been skeptical they would be able to maintain a monopoly for a few decades, but even without Jeff Bezos at the helm, they got enough foresight to continue to expand their operations nonstop.

Color me completely impressed.

Re:Amazon is bypassing supply chain chaos with chartered shi... by tenpies on Sunday December 05, 2021 @10:42PM (#29455871)
> even without Jeff Bezos

It's honestly because of Jeff Bezos that Amazon can succeed without Jeff Bezos.

People honestly do not give Bezos enough credit, not just for what Amazon has achieved, but for what he has achieved within Amazon. Decades from now there will be case studies about the succession planning at Amazon versus other "major" companies of our time which oftentimes revolve around the ego and narcissism of a CEO with too much self-importance to foster any sort of succession within the organization.

Amazon's best years are quite likely still not behind us and will quite likely happen when Bezos is no longer around to see them.

Re:Amazon is bypassing supply chain chaos with chartered shi... by ergocoder on Monday December 06, 2021 @12:53AM (#29456610)
I was at Google.

The ability to look long term at Amazon is just fucking amazing.

Google will never ever have that kind of competence.

Re:Amazon is bypassing supply chain chaos with chartered shi... by overtonwhy on Monday December 06, 2021 @04:06AM (#29457690)
Bezos made a better web interface for a Walmart level selection of goods and now Walmart is caught up and it's all the same. Shopping at Amazon is ethically the same as shopping at Walmart (not good IMO).
Re:Amazon is bypassing supply chain chaos with chartered shi... by leetcrew on Monday December 06, 2021 @09:52AM (#29460378)
how is Walmart "caught up"? this is what their homepage looks like today on my pixel 4a: https://ibb.co/Y3Zh7k2

if I flip it to landscape, the layout looks right, but the button to reveal the search bar (the most important element on a retail homepage) doesn't work. I would be shocked to have that experience with Amazon in the middle of the holidays. it's just throwing away money.

Re:Amazon is bypassing supply chain chaos with chartered shi... by dogleash on Monday December 06, 2021 @12:18PM (#29462564)
>how is Walmart "caught up"? this is what their homepage looks like today on my pixel 4a: https://ibb.co/Y3Zh7k2

They're caught up exactly because your biggest problem is that the site layout shit the bed. Your complaint wasn't that their business model and logistical infrastructure doesn't let you order stuff to your home on par with amazon.

Re:Amazon is bypassing supply chain chaos with chartered shi... by leetcrew on Monday December 06, 2021 @12:54PM (#29463147)
it might seem like a minor issue. if I really wanted to shop with Walmart I could try a different browser, try their app, or switch to my PC. but people don't do that when they just want to buy something. approximately no one cares about giving second chances to a megacorp.

when you have strong competition, it's not enough to mostly get things right at a high level. the little things matter just as much for earning trust. Amazon gets this. Walmart, apparently, does not. they're a solid second choice if something is sold out elsewhere, I'll give them that.

Re:Amazon is bypassing supply chain chaos with chartered shi... by GhettoComputers on Monday December 06, 2021 @12:50PM (#29463071)
I like that it can work without javascript.
Re:Amazon is bypassing supply chain chaos with chartered shi... by fault1 on Monday December 06, 2021 @08:30AM (#29459465)
Yeah, but ecommerce is just one of amazon's (many) businesses.
Re:Amazon is bypassing supply chain chaos with chartered shi... by GhettoComputers on Monday December 06, 2021 @12:49PM (#29463052)
And it would become more profitable without it
[dead]
Re:Amazon is bypassing supply chain chaos with chartered shi... by Henk0815 on Monday December 06, 2021 @02:55AM (#29457298)
A villain can still be a competent villain
Re:Amazon is bypassing supply chain chaos with chartered shi... by kvathupo on Sunday December 05, 2021 @07:04PM (#29454635)
This 2019 article [1] interestingly remarks that Amazon is one of the few companies that has been able to maintain efficiency with scale. Within the context of its foray into government contracting, perhaps the US government can learn a thing or two about cutting its obscene bureaucratic bloat?

As an aside, I would love to read a biography of Bezos the individual, not businessman. We all too often shrink the complex lives of humans into labels that fit 280 characters. Alas, that'll likely not happen anytime soon.

(You can listen to the article thanks to the YC-backed Audm. Great content, passable app)

[1] - https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2019/11/what-je...

Re:Amazon is bypassing supply chain chaos with chartered shi... by ezconnect on Sunday December 05, 2021 @07:38PM (#29454864)
Government will never be efficient because the players knows there are free money to grab and efficiency is not the goal of all the decision makers involve.
Re:Amazon is bypassing supply chain chaos with chartered shi... by tonyedgecombe on Monday December 06, 2021 @05:25AM (#29458063)
I don't know. In the UK I can submit my taxes online, the whole thing is straightforward even including dividends and capital gains tax. It spits out the calculations for you and avoids needing an accountant. You could do it all manually but why would you when it is so efficient.

There is clearly a spectrum here and blindly labelling all government as useless is wrong.

Re:Amazon is bypassing supply chain chaos with chartered shi... by t0suj4 on Monday December 06, 2021 @06:25AM (#29458396)
The parent commenter didn't refer to efficiency of tax collection.

They refer to the fact that taxes is the pot the government will draw money from whenever any of their enterprises becomes unprofitable. If the pot is too small to fund all the projects they can simply grow out by taxing the populace more.

When an unprofitable business in the private sector runs out of investor money it sells all its assets and eventually collapses.

Re:Amazon is bypassing supply chain chaos with chartered shi... by tonyedgecombe on Monday December 06, 2021 @09:50AM (#29460344)
>The parent commenter didn't refer to efficiency of tax collection.

Tax collection is part of government and in this case is an useful counterexample to the endless "all government is bad" messages we regularly hear on HN.

>When an unprofitable business in the private sector runs out of investor money it sells all its assets and eventually collapses.

Yes, and unpopular governments get voted out (assuming they are democratic).

Re:Amazon is bypassing supply chain chaos with chartered shi... by cloudier on Monday December 06, 2021 @09:01PM (#29468351)
It is easy to believe that “all government is bad” when the only government you’ve interacted with is the US government. Thanks for highlighting a counter example.
Re:Amazon is bypassing supply chain chaos with chartered shi... by tsol on Tuesday December 07, 2021 @03:07PM (#29477538)
Eh, most companies in the world aren't as efficient as Amazon. I know it's fashionable to complain about big government, but I think everyone can learn from Amazon. The idea that it's only the government that is inefficient is such a strange thing to me
Re:Amazon is bypassing supply chain chaos with chartered shi... by dgut on Sunday December 05, 2021 @07:16PM (#29454723)
That assumes government wants less of itself...
Re:Amazon is bypassing supply chain chaos with chartered shi... by thelittleone on Sunday December 05, 2021 @07:38PM (#29454866)
True! There's a parallel here between government bloat and corporate bloat. In the case of corporations, failing to eliminate bloat reduces competitiveness leading to disruption. The corp may survive at least temporarily by bullying or buying disruptors, but its just delaying the inevitable.
Re:Amazon is bypassing supply chain chaos with chartered shi... by scollet on Monday December 06, 2021 @01:59AM (#29456990)
Did you get the promotion?
[dead]
Re:Amazon is bypassing supply chain chaos with chartered shi... by b9a2cab5 on Sunday December 05, 2021 @07:53PM (#29454967)
Perhaps you should remove your political colored glasses and consider things objectively. A company can be both remarkable in its achievements and have committed labor abuses.

> doesn't pay taxes

Yes, that's what R&D investment is. They "make" billions but reinvest all of it into growth so they pay no tax. If you somehow split off AWS and taxed its profits separately Amazon would just increase its R&D spending on AWS and go back to paying $0 in tax.

This is a good policy, by the way. You want to encourage companies to make use of their money rather than returning it to shareholders. That creates more jobs and results in more technological and economic growth.

Re:Amazon is bypassing supply chain chaos with chartered shi... by barbazoo on Sunday December 05, 2021 @11:51PM (#29456287)
Let's not forget that they also use(d) actual tax avoidance schemes via Ireland, Luxembourg, etc. It's not just that they invested all their money back into their business.
Re:Amazon is bypassing supply chain chaos with chartered shi... by ozzythecat on Monday December 06, 2021 @01:11AM (#29456727)
Every large American company and every American business owner is involved in minimizing their tax burden. Why is it “wrong” when Amazon or any other large company does it?

I took every write off I could last year to minimize my tax burden. Am I also a bad person?

I can actually respect Amazon. They reinvest a huge chunk of the change into new business verticals and create new jobs.

Let’s say Amazon paid another $N billion in taxes. Where would the money go? To Washington politicians who’ve been promising change and reform in education, infrastructure, healthcare - at least my entire existence on this planet of not longer. Why should we give them money? Who holds them accountable, and regardless of your politics, how well has that worked out? Americas politicians optimize for their reelection. None of them, not the career officials or the one or two term presidents, regardless of political party, have done much to optimize for the marathon.

Bezos was apparently going to go bankrupt and Amazons model just wasn’t sustainable - according to the same media that cheerleads the two political parties. Yet, here we are, and the failed politicians and divisive media has no ideas other than blaming successful companies.

You could take every penny of Amazon and Apples total market cap and hand it to Washington and state governments. You believe anything will change and will stop overspending every year and adding to the national debt? Who will politicians blame then? Tesla? Ha!

Re:Amazon is bypassing supply chain chaos with chartered shi... by barbazoo on Monday December 06, 2021 @10:30AM (#29460908)
You seem to be questioning taxes/government in general, I'm not gonna comment on that.

Sure, individuals and companies can use the rules of the system to minimize the tax they're paying. Everyone does that. But companies like Amazon also have a responsibility to the country they operate in and in my opinion should pay taxes there. Just because some financial wizard figured out that that there is such a thing as a double dutch sandwich or what it's called doesn't mean everyone has to eat it.

Re:Amazon is bypassing supply chain chaos with chartered shi... by b9a2cab5 on Monday December 06, 2021 @02:00PM (#29464071)
If you're going to make an argument for why we should tax companies like Amazon more, you need to also make an argument for why that money wouldn't otherwise be better used by Amazon compared to the government.

In my opinion anything larger than a medium sized city (think one of the many cities in SoCal) is basically guaranteed to use its funds poorly.

Re:Amazon is bypassing supply chain chaos with chartered shi... by GhettoComputers on Monday December 06, 2021 @12:51PM (#29463089)
>But companies like Amazon also have a responsibility to the country they operate in and in my opinion should pay taxes there.

Do individuals and companies not?

Re:Amazon is bypassing supply chain chaos with chartered shi... by hef19898 on Monday December 06, 2021 @02:54AM (#29457289)
And Amazon most likely shared a postal address in Amsterdam with Mercedes, Siemens or BMW. Or at least the street. That shit is common practice. DO I like it? No. Does this make Amazon any less impressive? No.
Re:Amazon is bypassing supply chain chaos with chartered shi... by MagnumOpus on Monday December 06, 2021 @06:40AM (#29458514)
> Amazon most likely shared a postal address in Amsterdam with Mercedes, Siemens or BMW. Or at least the street

You are talking out of your ass and revealing your xenophobia. The Dutch Sandwich tax dodge works mostly for firms who can pretend that Caribbean post box firm own their "intellectual property" (i.e. tech and pharma firms) and who can then pretend that their actual operating entities are loss making. And no, the German car and industrial companies don't do that.

Re:Amazon is bypassing supply chain chaos with chartered shi... by hef19898 on Monday December 06, 2021 @07:05AM (#29458702)
Source in German, but German industrial giants like BASF are doping exactly that:

https://www.focus.de/finanzen/steuern/fiskus-geht-leer-aus-m...

I couldn't find a source for Siemens et all that quickly, they are doing it as well so. As is any other DAX listed company (that isn't loosing money).

Re:Amazon is bypassing supply chain chaos with chartered shi... by tinyhouse on Monday December 06, 2021 @07:10AM (#29458741)
True and also employ close to 1.5M employees globally who pay taxes.
Re:Amazon is bypassing supply chain chaos with chartered shi... by pengaru on Sunday December 05, 2021 @07:44PM (#29454903)
> forces workers to piss in plastic bottles

I think a large portion of the American population would be surprised how often men piss in plastic bottles, and it just goes unmentioned.

Re:Amazon is bypassing supply chain chaos with chartered shi... by CircleSpokes on Sunday December 05, 2021 @08:04PM (#29455027)
Specifically delivery drivers.
Re:Amazon is bypassing supply chain chaos with chartered shi... by pengaru on Monday December 06, 2021 @10:50AM (#29461185)
Long-haul truckers don't strike me as likely to be stopping for #1s, especially not with the amounts of coffee they're reputed to consume.
Re:Amazon is bypassing supply chain chaos with chartered shi... by diputsmonro on Sunday December 05, 2021 @07:05PM (#29454640)
It's easy to innovate and put in the hard work to do things efficiently when you have more money than God. Wealth begets wealth.
Re:Amazon is bypassing supply chain chaos with chartered shi... by weezin on Sunday December 05, 2021 @07:09PM (#29454666)
Governments have more money than god and are horrible at efficiency.
Re:Amazon is bypassing supply chain chaos with chartered shi... by diputsmonro on Sunday December 19, 2021 @03:00AM (#29612252)
The efficiency of a government is determined by those who direct it, it's not inherent to the structure.

The Manhatten Project, the New Deal, and the Space Race were remarkably efficient and productive, back in the time that we believed that governments can and should do things, and politicians worked together in good faith.

Then corporate lobbyists bought our politicians and convinced us that governments are evil and inept, and that they shouldn't have to pay taxes because the government will just waste it. So we deregulated everything, and now billionares just waste their record profits on low orbit joyrides instead, while average Americans die preventable deaths because they can't afford healthcare (which the governments of every other developed nation manage to provide their citizens for free).

Re:Amazon is bypassing supply chain chaos with chartered shi... by djhn on Sunday December 05, 2021 @07:12PM (#29454690)
The money is diluted (excluding dictatorships), and the end goal to optimise for is more power, not more money.
Re:Amazon is bypassing supply chain chaos with chartered shi... by tsol on Tuesday December 07, 2021 @03:08PM (#29477553)
Amazon doesn't have to pay for roads or a military
Re:Amazon is bypassing supply chain chaos with chartered shi... by leetcrew on Sunday December 05, 2021 @07:47PM (#29454921)
amazon does have a lot of revenue, but it doesn't have the extreme margins that companies like google and facebook have. they can't just throw money at problems the same way. amazon has similar margins to walmart, and only just exceeded the latter's revenue in 2020. would anyone argue walmart is the more innovative company?
Re:Amazon is bypassing supply chain chaos with chartered shi... by Infinitesimus on Monday December 06, 2021 @10:52AM (#29461210)
Remember that Amazon didn't start with more money than God though. They got here by consistently making hard, long term bets.