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Re:100 years of whatever this will be by fragmede on Thursday December 02, 2021 @03:19PM (#29421903)
I get where defi is coming from, and the regulations are onerous, but also those regulations were hard-fought for, and came about on the backs of real problems for real people, often by being exploited by people most accurately described as conmen. Caveat emptor, sure, but on the way from "investing your play money" to someone close to retirement's 401k, there's a much bigger pitfall.

The "battles" are shaping up to be fought the same way they were previously - regulations forcing big huge heavy disclaimers on financial products, cryptocoin-based or otherwise, that state that the returns stated are not actually guaranteed.

Re:100 years of whatever this will be by dcow on Thursday December 02, 2021 @04:00PM (#29422480)
I truly don’t think DeFi is, at its heart, anti-regulation. I do think a lot of early proponents are armchair anarchists, but that’s just the scene. I think it’s anti corruption/abuse of power by institutions too large to fail—often due to lack of meaningful regulatory political power, across the board. (You’ll probably easily find people playing with web3 dns also advocating for personal data regulations, for example.)

No, software can’t fix all of the institutional and political problems, but it can present a more efficient modern system that helps generate the political clout people will need on the battlefield. We have systemic problems and no they’re not all going to go away with better software. But we need catalysts that motivate people, win hearts, and pierce through the apathetic menagerie.

Re:100 years of whatever this will be by supernovae on Thursday December 02, 2021 @05:40PM (#29423832)
Today there was a crypto hack that cost over 110 million because the website's cloudflare key was hacked/leaked apparently.

With 0 regulation and no recourse built into crypto, one poor soul lost 50.8 million in 900 bitcoins.

You're not going to replace people problems with tech. Period.

Re:100 years of whatever this will be by dcow on Thursday December 02, 2021 @11:06PM (#29426510)
Right, so wouldn't it be nice if they were using an L2 sub-chain (a bank) that rolled up transactions so that this transaction could have been flagged and rejected. The need for these intermediaries to help the general public not get fucked is clear. The existing tech just kinda sucks. There's a world where the root chain is objective and transparent and distributed but where for most any practical application people interface with the chain at layer 2 and subject to any sort of social restraints and regulations they want to put in place.
Re:100 years of whatever this will be by knownjorbist on Friday December 03, 2021 @12:31AM (#29426929)
For tall the clamoring about the issues with Big Tech or Big Government, some HNers seem all too willing to sign over essentially everything important just because it's more convenient when those powers have a backdoor to right wrongs.
Re:100 years of whatever this will be by walterbell on Thursday December 02, 2021 @05:57PM (#29424027)
> You're not going to replace people problems with tech. Period.

Sadly, there will always be people who benefit from misattribution of a people problem to tech.

Re:100 years of whatever this will be by __MatrixMan__ on Friday December 03, 2021 @06:24PM (#29436925)
Never say never. Whatever human problems remain after there are no more humans will probably become tech problems.
Re:100 years of whatever this will be by arcticbull on Thursday December 02, 2021 @06:01PM (#29424083)
Folks very quickly forget that regulations are written in blood.

You know what other kinds of regulations are onerous? Everything aviation related. Every corner of aviation. And yet we're not clamoring to deregulate aviation because the consequences are so clear and self-evident.

Regulations are generally there for a reason. If they aren't, they need to be amended, we don't need to make our own money, except for blackjack and hookers.

Re:100 years of whatever this will be by scoofy on Thursday December 02, 2021 @06:12PM (#29424252)
These people likely do not know of the lives destroyed by the wildcat banking era of the mid-1800's in the United States, which is what DeFi seems to become.

People don't think of the failing power of international sanctions.

The consequences of a fully de-regulated financial system will likely lead to more armed conflicts. That said, I agree that the political system is broken, but that's a problem of democracy.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wildcat_banking

Re:100 years of whatever this will be by Karrot_Kream on Thursday December 02, 2021 @06:21PM (#29424369)
The historical consensus behind this idea is not there. Here's [1] a good example of some scholarly dissent. I'm pretty sure the truth is more complicated than advocates of the "Wildcat Banks evil" idea keep parroting.

[1]: https://www.alt-m.org/2021/07/06/the-fable-of-the-cats/

Re:100 years of whatever this will be by Karrot_Kream on Thursday December 02, 2021 @06:19PM (#29424335)
Not all regulations are written in blood, and not all regulations have their intended effect.

Aviation is a great example of this. Yes aviation in most of the developed world continues to be extremely safe and the regulations are largely written in blood, off the backs of many failed aviation experiments. But regulations _are_ stifling aircraft design and the FAA is trying to desperately figure out how to not calcify the industry without endangering people. Anything but your largest passenger movers are all either from the 1960s or just reruns of these '60s designs. Despite huge advances in sensor fidelity, reliability, and electronics process changes, the cost to certify a new aircraft design is so high that most aircraft makers don't bother and just coast on old designs that have already been approved and are mostly just grandfathered in designs. It's taking decades for leaded aviation fuel to be phased out because of the difficulty in iterating on engine designs due to above regulations. We could have been much farther along in aircraft energy efficiency, maybe even electrification, if these regulations weren't as onerous. (One could even make a case, though probably unsubstantiated, that had regulations not had this impact that aviation would be cleaner and would lead to lower pollution-based mortality, so a regulation that's _ensuring_ blood.) Experimental aviation and sport aviation regulations in the US are a direct response to this slowdown in innovation and I hope they pave the way for more lightweight regulatory out-valves in aviation.

Ham radio is another great example of a medium that is dying due to regulations. There's large restrictions on digital modes and encryption on multiple ham bands. Because of the internet then, Ham doesn't really offer anyone anything that they can't do on the internet, so most people these days just don't care. The regulations themselves are in place to make sure the spectrum allocated to amateurs isn't abused; allow encryption and commercial vendors will use Ham bands for their own private operations, and allowing too many digital modes could (but doesn't necessarily) increase the noise floor. That doesn't mean that regulation doesn't have a strangling effect on the medium as a whole.

It's important to remember that as technology improves, regulations may have to be rethought. I'm fully onboard with the idea that regulations need to work hand-in-hand with the market to produce desirable outcomes, but to deify regulations like this is much too coarse a filter for a complicated, nuanced issue like finance. It provides a nice fight with clearly delineated sides when you pit "regulation good" people against "regulation bad" people, but the truth is that regulations are complicated and IMO should be reevaluated in the face of change.

Re:100 years of whatever this will be by preseinger on Friday December 03, 2021 @03:38PM (#29435066)
Rethought and improved, yes. Abandoned as fundamentally broken, no.
Re:100 years of whatever this will be by Karrot_Kream on Friday December 03, 2021 @08:52PM (#29437918)
Correct that was the whole point of my post. Regulations need to be constantly rethought. The positions of "regulation good" or "regulation bad" are just too simple to be practical.
Re:100 years of whatever this will be by secabeen on Thursday December 02, 2021 @05:18PM (#29423535)
I agree with a lot of this. A lot of techies are used to software and customer environments where vendors and customers work together for shared success. Finance is not that sort of space. Much of it is fundamentally zero-sum and adversarial. It needs a different style of oversight than SAAS.