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Re:Koreans react to startling results in Pew "what makes lif... by chrischen on Wednesday November 24, 2021 @01:57PM (#29333710)
We all get heavily sold the “American dream” which is a lie to keep the lower classes constantly working hard.
Re:Koreans react to startling results in Pew "what makes lif... by darth_avocado on Wednesday November 24, 2021 @02:41PM (#29334229)
I strongly disagree with the statement, United States, although behind a lot of countries in social mobility index, still ranks pretty high in the world. It also leads with 8.8% of the adult population being millionaires, only behind Switzerland and Australia. That speaks volumes on how many opportunities exist in this country to make yourself better.
Re:Koreans react to startling results in Pew "what makes lif... by brnt on Wednesday November 24, 2021 @03:39PM (#29334858)
Superstarism is the bias of only looking at success (which here is defined in a very narrow which betrays a secnd bias but that's another discussion).

Superstarism is a old tool and well documented (for those who read) tool of the rulers of courts to keep their entourage in check. In brief: be an abbedient lackey or lose the favour of the court. Because it misses the bottom percentiles overlooking, it overlooks them; as e.g. the French revolution shows, it may become untenable, for good reasons, at any moment.

The existence of opportunity is best proven not by looking at how high one might go, but at how many are left behind. And how, according to certain measures, they are in fact regressing.

Re:Koreans react to startling results in Pew "what makes lif... by tsol on Wednesday November 24, 2021 @09:50PM (#29337748)
>Superstarism is a old tool and well documented (for those who read) tool of the rulers of courts to keep their entourage in check. In brief: be an abbedient lackey or lose the favour of the court.

This isn't really an argument against as much as a reason to be suspicious. It still can be a useful metric, it says something about social mobility. I'm unconvinced.

>it misses the bottom percentiles overlooking, it overlooks them; as e.g. the French revolution shows, it may become untenable, for good reasons, at any moment.

The French Revolution was precipitated by large scale starvation, conditions that the US is extremely far from. This is, ironically, a case of bias looking at successful revolution-- most revolutions historically aren't successful and certainly not to the extent the French Revolution was(influencing later revolutions and the political thought). Looking at recent revolutions across the Middle East and Africa in the past decade, most of them largely fizzle out when the ruling party pushes back with force. Even when everyone want a revolution, most people aren't willing to put their own life on the line for it. Not unless the alternative is worse-- bringing us back to the conditions that started the French Revolution

Re:Koreans react to startling results in Pew "what makes lif... by jazzyjackson on Wednesday November 24, 2021 @03:57PM (#29335068)
I was shocked by a statistic I saw somewhere that one million millionaires live in the new york metro area - it made more sense once i realized anyone who bought a house in the 80s is now a millionaire thanks merely to rising cost of housing. I don’t think this metric is very useful for measuring economic opportunity.
Re:Koreans react to startling results in Pew "what makes lif... by convolvatron on Wednesday November 24, 2021 @02:56PM (#29334373)
or, it means that 80% are left behind with no real opportunity for advancement whatsoever. I'm not saying this is true - but largest number of millionaires isn't maybe the best metric for the overall happiness of the population?
Re:Koreans react to startling results in Pew "what makes lif... by cscurmudgeon on Wednesday November 24, 2021 @05:10PM (#29335761)
Thats why the comment also mentioned social mobility index. But curiously, everyone seems to be ignoring that.
Re:Koreans react to startling results in Pew "what makes lif... by mbrodersen on Wednesday November 24, 2021 @08:07PM (#29337159)
The # of millionaires have nothing to do with the overall happiness of the population.
Re:Koreans react to startling results in Pew "what makes lif... by missedthecue on Wednesday November 24, 2021 @02:24PM (#29334043)
A lie? Americans have the highest median disposable income in the OECD after adjusting for government transfers like healthcare and education and for purchasing power parity. And it's not even close. US is at $54k, second place is tiny Luxembourg with $49k, Germany is at $42k, United Kingdom and Sweden at $35k, and Korea at $27k.

https://data.oecd.org/hha/household-disposable-income.htm

(change net to gross adjusted in the menu to view the data)

Re:Koreans react to startling results in Pew "what makes lif... by rvense on Wednesday November 24, 2021 @04:04PM (#29335132)
Dane here. I work 30 hours per week as a programmer. My wife works full time for an NGO. Looking at that chart I think we're fairly average for our country, maybe a little bit higher.

My wife is currently on maternity leave with almost full pay. I am allowed by law to take paternity leave, and as is common my contract gives me several months with full pay. Even if you don't get paid by your work, you have the right to take up to a year off (in all for both of us) with government support.

Even if we both lost our jobs, our (government-subsidized) unemployment insurances are enough to mean we would be able to live more or less as we do now for the two years that the insurance covers, without finding jobs. With some adjustments to our living standard, we might just about be able to at least stay where we live now, even with just the lower benefit rates that we would be able to collect after the two years. We are, however, both in positions where finding new work is fairly simple.

Health care is free and not tied to our employment situation. If either of us become gravely ill, we can worry about the illness, not the cost of treatment. There is no such thing as a "medical bankruptcy" here, and we don't have GoFundMe.

We were paid a little to go to university. I still have some (government) student loads from that time because I was a bit of a fuck-up and didn't work while studying, but it's not so bad.

All in all, I live mostly free of fear and certainly free of want. You think I'd trade that for 18k per year? Would saving up all of it mean I could get even close to this? And how do the people who are below average fare?

Re:Koreans react to startling results in Pew "what makes lif... by asoneth on Wednesday November 24, 2021 @04:10PM (#29335202)
When James Truslow Adams coined the term "American Dream" in 1931 he defined it as: "life should be better and richer and fuller for everyone, with opportunity for each according to ability or achievement".

Social mobility in the United States is better than most countries in the world but not particularly high compared to similar countries. More worrying is that it has been falling over time. This kind of social stratification eventually results in large swaths of the country and citizenry for whom life is not better and who do not have the same opportunities.

Having more money certainly helps -- it's hard for anyone to live a "better and richer and fuller" life if they cannot afford necessities. But past a certain point the correlation between a country's wealth and measures like happiness, life expectancy, social mobility, life satisfaction, etc seem to break down, especially in the US. Which to me indicates that we're probably not using our wealth efficiently.

Re:Koreans react to startling results in Pew "what makes lif... by missedthecue on Wednesday November 24, 2021 @05:47PM (#29336092)
Social mobility in the States is lower because the income quintiles are further apart.
Re:Koreans react to startling results in Pew "what makes lif... by dragonwriter on Wednesday November 24, 2021 @02:45PM (#29334256)
The US has substantially larger household sizes than any, except Korea, of the rest of the top 5 by household income, so comparing median household figures is misleading:

https://www.oecd.org/els/family/SF_1_1_Family_size_and_compo...

Re:Koreans react to startling results in Pew "what makes lif... by missedthecue on Wednesday November 24, 2021 @03:17PM (#29334611)
How much income does your four year old haul in on an annual basis?
Re:Koreans react to startling results in Pew "what makes lif... by dragonwriter on Wednesday November 24, 2021 @04:43PM (#29335525)
The US has a much higher than OECD average share of households that are neither single, single-parent or couple with or without children, because of non-family adults living together for economic reasons.

The difference in household size isn't just kids.

Re:Koreans react to startling results in Pew "what makes lif... by biophysboy on Wednesday November 24, 2021 @02:53PM (#29334340)
I think the argument is that it is a lie that this will translate to life satisfaction. Americans could probably take more vacation, for instance.

The survey is being misinterpreted though. Its not that only 2% of Americans are satisfied, its that 2% of Americans offer vague positive vibes rather than a specific answer to what gives them meaning. I don't think I am stereotyping when I say Germany, Japan, and South Korea are more reserved culturally, so of course they're going to be more likely to say "yeah things are going fine overall".

Re:Koreans react to startling results in Pew "what makes lif... by hashmush on Wednesday November 24, 2021 @02:35PM (#29334172)
But what are you gonna do with that income if you're constantly working?
Re:Koreans react to startling results in Pew "what makes lif... by missedthecue on Wednesday November 24, 2021 @03:21PM (#29334661)
Americans work only an hour more per week than the OECD average.

https://data.oecd.org/emp/hours-worked.htm

Americans watch an average of 600 hours of Netflix per year. They aren't short on time.

https://www.nexttv.com/news/analysis-americans-averaged-600-...

Re:Koreans react to startling results in Pew "what makes lif... by raffraffraff on Wednesday November 24, 2021 @03:28PM (#29334740)
> Americans watch an average of 600 hours of Netflix per year.

Ah. So that's why they're dissatisfied.

Re:Koreans react to startling results in Pew "what makes lif... by hdjjhhvvhga on Wednesday November 24, 2021 @04:32PM (#29335422)
Given the American ethos, I bet the USA will be one of the last countries to introduce the 4-day work week.
Re:Koreans react to startling results in Pew "what makes lif... by mbrodersen on Wednesday November 24, 2021 @08:14PM (#29337206)
Median disposable income has nothing to do with how well the bottom part of society is doing. 40% of Americans have limited or no health insurance. And Americans in general live shorter lives than Europeans. 100% of Western Europeans have full health coverage and free or close to free access to top Universities. Comparing different countries can’t be boiled down to median disposable income. Unless you have a very simplistic view on what matters in life.
Re:Koreans react to startling results in Pew "what makes lif... by nobodyandproud on Thursday November 25, 2021 @12:46AM (#29338561)
https://www.ssa.gov/OACT/COLA/central.html

Mean income (the more useless measure) is about $54,000.

Median income (the meaningful, realistic number) is $34,000.

How many of these people $34k jobs do you think come with actual health, dental, and other benefits?

The middle income families are barely scraping by.