News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:Is it stealing to read by the light of your neighbour’s l... by emeraldd on Saturday November 20, 2021 @03:44PM (#29291681)
This reminds me of a story I read growing up. I can't find the reference now, though I'm pretty sure I read it in an old copy of "1000 and 1 Arabian Nights".

The way it went, there was a poor man who lived above a restaurant who subsisted primarily on rice. He discovered that by eating by his open window, the smells drifting up from the food cooking below would add flavor to his meager meals. When the restaurant owner discovered this, he became angry and demanded payment from the poor man who naturally refused. The restaurant owner pulled the poor man before a local magistrate demanding that the magistrate force the man to pay. After thinking for a while, the magistrate asked if the poor man had any money, which he did. The magistrate then directs the poor man to jingle the money and said that the payment for the smell of the restaurant owner's food was the sound of money.

I can't retell it nearly as well as the original, which is probably online somewhere but not anywhere I know about ... :(

Re:Is it stealing to read by the light of your neighbour’s l... by klipt on Saturday November 20, 2021 @10:11PM (#29293860)
That reminds me of a Jewish folktale: a poor man borrowed some silver spoons from a miser to impress his daughter's visiting suitor, and returned them with a tin teaspoon, explaining that the spoons had given birth. The miser thought this ridiculous but happily accepted the free teaspoon.

The same thing happened the next week and the miser again accepted the free teaspoon.

The week after the poor man asked to borrow the miser's gold candlesticks, because this was the last week the suitor was in town and he really wanted to impress. The next day he informed the miser that the candlesticks had sadly died.

The miser, furious, dragged the poor man in front of the rabbi to demand justice. But the rabbi, listening to their story, concurred that since the miser was happy to accept the baby spoons, he must likewise accept the death of his gold candlesticks.

Re:Is it stealing to read by the light of your neighbour’s l... by dcow on Saturday November 20, 2021 @10:25PM (#29293938)
Right so from these two folktales we seem to all agree that the author doesn’t have a valid argument. Personally I was disappointed when the essay morphed into grasping at straws trying to argue that companies should just pay all your living expenses because they’re benefiting from you being alive…

I was expecting the author to take a copyleft direction and comment on all the absurd things we allow oppressive licensors to get away with in the modern digital era.. Oh well, another discussion for another time, I guess.

Re:Is it stealing to read by the light of your neighbour’s l... by cainxinth on Saturday November 20, 2021 @05:55PM (#29292555)
There's an old episode of the Simpsons (can't remember which), but something is wrong and Moe's Tavern is suddenly filled with noxious fumes. Barney inhales it and starts getting loopy, and Moe says something to effect of: "Hey, hey, I'm gonna have to start charging if you guys are getting high off this stuff!"
Re:Is it stealing to read by the light of your neighbour’s l... by gww on Saturday November 20, 2021 @07:56PM (#29293201)
It's from the Who Shot Mr. Burns Episode (S06E25) [1].

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Who_Shot_Mr._Burns%3F

Re:Is it stealing to read by the light of your neighbour’s l... by vanboxel on Saturday November 20, 2021 @03:56PM (#29291766)
That story sounds exactly like Ooka Tadasuke. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C5%8Coka_Tadasuke#Famous_case...
Re:Is it stealing to read by the light of your neighbour’s l... by shpongled on Saturday November 20, 2021 @07:42PM (#29293116)
Interestingly, wiki links back to a Paul Graham article referencing Ooka http://www.paulgraham.com/property.html
Re:Is it stealing to read by the light of your neighbour’s l... by _nalply on Sunday November 21, 2021 @01:35AM (#29294604)
From that article:

> In 1956, an illustrated book was created by I.G. Edmonds, an American military officer. Published by the Pacific Stars & Stripes, it was called Solomon in Kimono: Tales of Ooka, a Wise Judge of Old Yedo.[4] Edmonds' work was published in 1961 as Ooka the Wise, and then in 1966 renamed The Case of the Marble Monster and Other Stories and made widely available to American schoolchildren by the Scholastic publishing company.

Perhaps GP read the story thanks to Edmonds.

Re:Is it stealing to read by the light of your neighbour’s l... by Kaibeezy on Saturday November 20, 2021 @07:29PM (#29293057)
That’s Ooka for sure. I did a PowerPoint on it for my criminal law class.
Re:Is it stealing to read by the light of your neighbour’s l... by hyperpallium2 on Saturday November 20, 2021 @08:15PM (#29293313)
IIRC There's a bit of suspense in the original, when the decision maker orders the poor man to take out the amount demanded, and place the coins on the table, which makes the sound.
Re:Is it stealing to read by the light of your neighbour’s l... by hyperpallium2 on Saturday November 20, 2021 @08:12PM (#29293300)
I always objected that a smell is transported mass, whereas sound is waves. But paying for electromagnetic waves with pressure waves seems fair.

(However, legal dispute resolution is about the effect on parties, not physical "reality".)

Re:Is it stealing to read by the light of your neighbour’s l... by elliekelly on Saturday November 20, 2021 @03:57PM (#29291775)
The Stolen Smell: https://vimeo.com/229846100
Re:Is it stealing to read by the light of your neighbour’s l... by wanderer2323 on Sunday November 21, 2021 @08:09PM (#29301549)
I've read it as a part of the Nasreddin (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nasreddin) stories compilation. "Nasreddin and the smell of soup" https://continuingstudies.uvic.ca/elc/studyzone/330/reading/...
Re:Is it stealing to read by the light of your neighbour’s l... by aiProgMach on Sunday November 21, 2021 @01:08PM (#29298292)
I came to write this same Arabic story, but my version was about a man that put a piece of bread above the meat grill hopping the smoke/taste will stick to it. The restaurant owner was a stingy person who saw a chance to take advantage of a poor man, for me it seems that the "free rider" is the restaurant owner who wanted to price the free smoke and if the judge was corrupted or stupid this man would become the inventor of capitalism before it was invented.
Re:Is it stealing to read by the light of your neighbour’s l... by 0kl on Saturday November 20, 2021 @09:40PM (#29293714)
Could it have been “Sanji and the Baker”?
[dead]
Re:Is it stealing to read by the light of your neighbour’s l... by lostcolony on Saturday November 20, 2021 @05:51PM (#29292534)
In that case you also probably think that everyone on HN who reads your post owes you compensation for your opinion on this matter, even though it was unasked for, you provided it for -your- own benefit, no terms were set and agreed to, and this isn't a context that normally is paid for.

In short, no.

Re:Is it stealing to read by the light of your neighbour’s l... by baskethead on Saturday November 20, 2021 @05:59PM (#29292572)
Then, the restaurant should compensate anyone who doesn’t like the smell.

Or the restaurant should be fined for letting it’s smell escape the confines of its kitchen.

Re:Is it stealing to read by the light of your neighbour’s l... by otherme123 on Saturday November 20, 2021 @06:17PM (#29292678)
Economic theory says, more or less, that the restaurant should try to avoid the smell escaping, and if they don't do it they are really not that interested.

The OP history is the same tune: if you want your light and your wifi just for you, just install blinds and harden you router. And then try reach an agreement with your neighbor.

Re:Is it stealing to read by the light of your neighbour’s l... by jfrunyon on Saturday November 20, 2021 @08:42PM (#29293445)
A restaurant could certainly invest in avoiding the smell escaping. But for most people smelling it, it's advertising, not a beneficial service. (Hey, just like some services you can either pay for -or- have ads when using! LOL)

Moreover, preventing the smell from escaping from a restaurant might be difficult in areas or times where A/C isn't as common...

Re:Is it stealing to read by the light of your neighbour’s l... by otherme123 on Sunday November 21, 2021 @01:38AM (#29294615)
Free grazing was a thing in the USA until the invention of barbed wire. If you can't avoid free riders because costs of doing it are too high, you'll have to bear with them, at least until you find a cost efficient solution. Don't ask for others to subsidize you (i.e. making people who doesn't benefit from the smell pay for it).
Re:Is it stealing to read by the light of your neighbour’s l... by jonnycomputer on Saturday November 20, 2021 @10:12PM (#29293861)
In which case, I demand compensation from you for the inconvenience of reading this post. Negative externality.

i.e. in another story, the neighbor could have hated the smell of the restaurant, and demanded compensation for the restaurant, and compensation was the sound of jingling coins.

Re:Is it stealing to read by the light of your neighbour’s l... by otikik on Saturday November 20, 2021 @07:21PM (#29293020)
The sound of money is pleasant to hear, hence he is compensated.
Re:Is it stealing to read by the light of your neighbour’s l... by ttybird on Saturday November 20, 2021 @06:46PM (#29292858)
Kinda similar to mandatory union dues for non-members :p
Re:Is it stealing to read by the light of your neighbour’s l... by ascar on Saturday November 20, 2021 @06:19PM (#29292687)
> Kind of like how when you get vaccinated you provide value to your community by reducing the chance that you’ll become a disease vector. So getting the vaccine improves the health of everyone around you. If we didn’t subsidize vaccines, fewer people would get them, and we’d all be worse off.

This was a story told to us in the beginning of widespread vaccination, but is disproven since we have evidence that vaccinated people can carry and spread the virus. The story changed to we are less likely to spread it, but there is also evidence for similar amounts of virus in vaccinated people, so I take it with a grain of salt given the history. (multiple reputable sources readily available on Google)

It's important to know and spread this information as it means that even though vaccinated people protect themselves from harsh symptoms they still have to be careful not to spread the virus.

Re:Is it stealing to read by the light of your neighbour’s l... by n8henrie on Saturday November 20, 2021 @07:32PM (#29293071)
This is only half the story. Compared to the unvaccinated, how likely are vaccinated individuals to have detectable virus in the first place?
Re:Is it stealing to read by the light of your neighbour’s l... by ascar on Sunday November 21, 2021 @05:41AM (#29295360)
That might very well be true and as a vaccinated person myself I hope it is true.

But how does that affect my conclusion that the vaccinated still have to be careful and herd immunity is unlikely to be a thing? A false sense of security is a problem in itself.

Re:Is it stealing to read by the light of your neighbour’s l... by n8henrie on Sunday November 21, 2021 @11:26AM (#29297419)
You seem to be making a few assumptions. The other half of the story could easily be that vaccinated individuals are equally likely to harbor detectable virus, I'm just pointing out that there is a big other factor to consider before we know how important vaccination is with regards to herd immunity and benefit (or risk) to one's community.
Re:Is it stealing to read by the light of your neighbour’s l... by CodeShmode on Saturday November 20, 2021 @06:36PM (#29292792)
> similar amounts of virus in vaccinated people

Yeah right, gonna have to see a reference for that. Is it 'some vaccinated people have been found with equivalent amounts of virus' or 'on average they have the same amount of virus'. Because they're vastly different scenarios.

Re:Is it stealing to read by the light of your neighbour’s l... by mandmandam on Saturday November 20, 2021 @06:50PM (#29292883)
? This is quite wide-spread and old news, and trivial to look up yourself before getting snarky.

> For people infected with the Delta variant, similar amounts of viral genetic material have been found among both unvaccinated and fully vaccinated people.

- https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/variants/delta-var...

Re:Is it stealing to read by the light of your neighbour’s l... by n4r9 on Saturday November 20, 2021 @07:26PM (#29293040)
Being vaccinated reduces the chance of getting infected in the first place. This is true even for the delta variant (although much more so for earlier variants)

https://els-jbs-prod-cdn.jbs.elsevierhealth.com/pb-assets/La...

Re:Is it stealing to read by the light of your neighbour’s l... by mandmandam on Sunday November 21, 2021 @03:41AM (#29294999)
That doesn't take away from the truth of what I said - in fact it's covered at length in the very same link I posted. Sigh
Re:Is it stealing to read by the light of your neighbour’s l... by n4r9 on Wednesday December 01, 2021 @02:39PM (#29408187)
Your link contained a speculation about the length of time for which vaccinated people are infectious. Mine is a study demonstrating that the chance of transmission to contacts is reduced.

Surely probability of transmission is the key factor determining whether vaccination reduces the spread of the disease?

Re:Is it stealing to read by the light of your neighbour’s l... by elvatoloco55 on Saturday November 20, 2021 @06:46PM (#29292857)
Its well documented that unvaccinated or vaccinated spread the virus in similar percentages. Go look in google scholar, why do you want to be spoon fed
Re:Is it stealing to read by the light of your neighbour’s l... by dsr_ on Saturday November 20, 2021 @07:49PM (#29293163)
It's not for their benefit, it's for yours.

Do you want to be known as the sort of person who claims "it's in the literature" but never provides cites?

Or do you want to be known as the sort of person who says "it's at this link"?

Unless you have gained name recognition, HN is a series of games in which you can decide to play or not in any given round, has limited but real downside (in terms of fake internet points), and not very limited upside.

So you can get away with being a defector on occasion, but it's much better to be a cooperator.

Re:Is it stealing to read by the light of your neighbour’s l... by SubuSS on Sunday November 21, 2021 @10:02AM (#29296604)
The whole citing business has become more of googling your viewpoint and providing the top 10 links rather than actual research. It has been my long standing opinion that this is pretty much the same as replacing your doctor with webmd. Sadly experts can’t be replaced by YouTube education.

Anyway - my first google link - https://www.google.com/amp/s/theconversation.com/amp/no-vacc...

Re:Is it stealing to read by the light of your neighbour’s l... by CodeShmode on Saturday November 20, 2021 @06:49PM (#29292871)
Some data for the opposite:

https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2021/10/12/1044553...

"If you actually isolate virus from people who are getting a secondary infection after being vaccinated, that virus is less good at infecting cells,"

"all 37 case patients for whom data were available regarding the source of infection, the suspected source was an unvaccinated person."

Re:Is it stealing to read by the light of your neighbour’s l... by jimmygrapes on Saturday November 20, 2021 @07:52PM (#29293180)
I am skeptical of this association between the term "data" and the quoted qualifier "suspected".