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Re:Workers in Portugal could see healthier work-life balance... by citilife on Monday November 08, 2021 @11:52AM (#29151230)
This is a product of socialism without protections. Put simply, you have high taxes to redistribute wealth. Unfortunately, the government takes their cut. As government becomes increasingly large / naturally corrupt that cut becomes larger.

The wealthy can leave and gain more else-where and many leave. Increasing the burden. If you don't have heavy border controls, people who are less advantaged move to the country to gain from the social system. You'll also have remote workers move into cities because it is cheaper than their home region. This drives up costs in cities, but isn't enough tax revenue to offset the loss in wealthy people leaving, as it's highly focused. You'll also have people investing and buying property, which also drives up the costs.

At the end of the day, if you want to improve life, you have to focus on

(a) strict immigration policies (reducing pressure from immigrants)

(b) strict import controls (raising internal wages)

(c) reduce social system, focus on citizens and potentially reduce general services

(d) reduce taxes on income, land and sales

(e) increase import taxes and potentially tax on foreigners

If you do the above, it'll reduce the burden on the individuals and protect & improve the internal labor market.

Re:Workers in Portugal could see healthier work-life balance... by MomoXenosaga on Monday November 08, 2021 @12:04PM (#29151392)
Surprisingly rich people don't leave Northern European countries for Dubai.

You can tax the SHIT out of people if they think they get something in return.

Re:Workers in Portugal could see healthier work-life balance... by dsomers on Monday November 08, 2021 @12:50PM (#29151988)
True. I’m probably paying 60% of my income in tax living in Amsterdam. I could easily relocate to somewhere like Chicago or Austin, and pay way less and have cheaper living expenses, but I’ve seen enough of American cities to know I find their wealth divide so cruel I personally consider it a crime against humanity. It’s just plain depressing to live in a society like that.
Re:Workers in Portugal could see healthier work-life balance... by whimsicalism on Monday November 08, 2021 @02:26PM (#29153140)
The crime being the existence of poor people? Europe is way worse on these fronts, they just hide their poor people better and put them in the suburbs.
Re:Workers in Portugal could see healthier work-life balance... by dsomers on Monday November 08, 2021 @03:45PM (#29153991)
Where have you been in Europe or the US? I have family on both sides of the Atlantic and know both continents quite well from personal experiences. The crime is letting people die from preventable illness because of unwillingness to provide universal healthcare, and a segregated system that makes higher education difficult to attain and keeps poor people in poverty.

On your second point I wholeheartedly disagree, I’ve been in small villages in Serbia, and I know people from there very well. I also grew up 10 minutes from the Michigan boarder and have friends and family there too. From my experience, the poorest people in Serbia are less at risk of abject poverty and dying from preventable diseases than the poorest in Michigan. Sure if you look at the average salary for someone in Michigan vs someone in Serbia, Serbia is way lower, but if you actually look at quality of life factors for the bottom 10% of both those places I’d bet Serbia pulls way ahead.

Edit: and I just use Serbia as an example because it’s one of the poorest countries in Europe and I still think it’s better than a lot of US states in how it helps its poor. When you look at health, safety, and educational outcomes of middle income and rich European countries they are often far ahead of the US averages. Christ, not everything is about maximizing GDP. Look at the average lifespan of an EU citizen that’s almost 10 years longer than an American citizen.

Re:Workers in Portugal could see healthier work-life balance... by whimsicalism on Monday November 08, 2021 @04:57PM (#29154774)
I'm an EU citizen as well as an American one. If you go to the suburbs in the outskirts of Paris, you will see what I am talking about. (the so-called "banlieue")

The US is going to have more obvious poverty also because they are more accepting of immigrants from impoverished countries.

> Look at the average lifespan of an EU citizen that’s almost 10 years longer than an American citizen.

Laughably false. A 10 year difference would be ridiculous!

You can look up everything that I am talking about. The (non-European) immigrant communities in Europe are incredibly poor, but kept out of sight because European development models involve affluent city centers and pushing minorities out to the suburbs, rather than the reverse which occurs in the US.

The US certainly has problems with these sorts of things, but headlines like:

https://www.newsweek.com/french-activists-39-percent-paris-t...

or

https://www.connexionfrance.com/Archive/Clubs-accused-of-rac...

are something unimaginable in the West outside of Europe.

Re:Workers in Portugal could see healthier work-life balance... by dsomers on Tuesday November 09, 2021 @10:24AM (#29162907)
> I'm an EU citizen as well as an American one. If you go to the suburbs in the outskirts of Paris, you will see what I am talking about. (the so-called "banlieue")

I’ve been there, thanks, and it’s not nearly as bad as the poor parts of Chicago or Detroit where I’ve also been. You’re completely detached from reality if you think otherwise. Have you even actually been to a poor area of a large America city? You’re also about 10x more likely to be murdered in those cities than in Paris.

> The US is going to have more obvious poverty also because they are more accepting of immigrants from impoverished countries.

Bullshit, there are basically zero first generation immigrants in Detroit. All Americans pretty much. Unless you don’t consider oppressed grandchildren of slaves as Americans?!

>> Look at the average lifespan of an EU citizen that’s almost 10 years longer than an American citizen. Laughably false. A 10 year difference would be ridiculous!

Fair, I was more thinking Italy specifically because I’m half Italian, but the average European still lives three years longer than the average America, which is pathetic considering the wealth in America.

> You can look up everything that I am talking about. The (non-European) immigrant communities in Europe are incredibly poor, but kept out of sight because European development models involve affluent city centers and pushing minorities out to the suburbs, rather than the reverse which occurs in the US.

If you’re selective about data like that, I can be selective about data too, and show you how black and brown oppressed communities in America have way worse social outcomes than the average American. What you’re saying about Europe is no different in America, it’s actually more extreme in America and more violent because of lax gun control.

> The US certainly has problems with these sorts of things, but headlines like: https://www.newsweek.com/french-activists-39-percent-paris-t...

Yeah, you’ve definitely never worked in a major midwestern city, because stuff like this still happens all the time, the racist have learned to just not be blatant about it. All you have to do is look at the C level executives at most American companies to see it. I’ve seen it first hand when I’ve tried to hire non white people in Canada and it was a battle for me. I have no idea why you think this is exclusive to France. I get that Bay Area companies are sometime more progressive, but companies in cities like Huston or Chicago, not so much, there’re still plenty of racists.

Re:Workers in Portugal could see healthier work-life balance... by refurb on Monday November 08, 2021 @08:06PM (#29156451)
The key is think they get something in return. They don’t have to actually get a lot, just think they do.
Re:Workers in Portugal could see healthier work-life balance... by pelasaco on Monday November 08, 2021 @12:08PM (#29151438)
We tend to talk about "socialism" in Portugal, but few countries that I know are more neoliberal than Portugal. Almost everything is private or is managed by private companies. Portugal is one of the few countries which exchanges visa for money. Our approach to Uber and Airbnd was until 2019, pretty liberal. I'm not saying that is right or wrong, just that even though the people vote for socialism, what we get in the end is neoliberalism.
Re:Workers in Portugal could see healthier work-life balance... by whimsicalism on Monday November 08, 2021 @02:27PM (#29153150)
Portugal has nothing on the anglosphere here, but yes is probably liberal by European standards.
Re:Workers in Portugal could see healthier work-life balance... by galfarragem on Monday November 08, 2021 @04:22PM (#29154451)
Not correct. Locals get socialism. Foreigners ultra capitalism. Portugal is a tax haven but only for foreigners. We exchange EU visas and tax isentions for money to sustain the socialist ideology.
Re:Workers in Portugal could see healthier work-life balance... by JetSpiegel on Thursday November 11, 2021 @08:26PM (#29195356)
> We exchange EU visas and tax isentions for money to sustain the socialist ideology.

What? The Golden Visa program was created by the liberal government of Passos Coelho. It's legalized corruption (the head of a government agency was even arrested in connection with this a while back), putting upward pressure on the housing market, than the money earned by the visas themselves.

Re:Workers in Portugal could see healthier work-life balance... by whimsicalism on Monday November 08, 2021 @02:25PM (#29153126)
> This is a product of socialism without protections. Put simply, you have high taxes to redistribute wealth. Unfortunately, the government takes their cut. As government becomes increasingly large / naturally corrupt that cut becomes larger.

To blame this on socialism proves you don't know the history of Portugal.

Re:Workers in Portugal could see healthier work-life balance... by cheriot on Monday November 08, 2021 @12:04PM (#29151378)
Is Portugal that much more socialist than Denmark, Finland, Germany, etc?
Re:Workers in Portugal could see healthier work-life balance... by whimsicalism on Monday November 08, 2021 @02:25PM (#29153120)
No, it was basically the longest running explicitly corporate oligarchy in Europe until the carnation revolution in the 70s.

Hilarious to be blaming this on socialism.

Re:Workers in Portugal could see healthier work-life balance... by Jensson on Tuesday November 09, 2021 @06:36AM (#29160309)
50 years is enough to go from undeveloped to developed, you can't really blame what happened back then for what the state is now. Under these 50 years Portugal didn't make any progress at all, it is still just as economically behind the main European powers as it was back then.
Re:Workers in Portugal could see healthier work-life balance... by whimsicalism on Tuesday November 09, 2021 @09:24AM (#29162112)
Uh, no a disadvantage from 50 years ago will absolutely show up 50 years later. Indeed, much of the reason Portugal remains behind can be traced back to further than that.

If you have a whole generation only recently retiring that wasn't educated because your state didn't fund schools, that is going to drag on your economy even to today.

Kinda just sounds like you don't know what you are talking about.

[dead]
Re:Workers in Portugal could see healthier work-life balance... by user743 on Monday November 08, 2021 @12:51PM (#29151997)
We can see now that without import controls corporations are going to chase slave-like labor around the globe until there isn't another country left to go to. I'm guessing everyone is against worker exploitation. What else is the answer? Globalization circumvents any wins for human rights made locally.
Re:Workers in Portugal could see healthier work-life balance... by 988747 on Monday November 08, 2021 @12:54PM (#29152033)
The advice worked for both Japan and South Korea. Probably it is the only way to jump from "emerging" to "developed" category, economically.
Re:Workers in Portugal could see healthier work-life balance... by handrous on Monday November 08, 2021 @01:09PM (#29152237)
Nitpicking, but Japan and South Korea rose by being, deliberately and thoughtfully, protectionist, not isolationist. China's doing the same thing now.
Re:Workers in Portugal could see healthier work-life balance... by matheusmoreira on Monday November 08, 2021 @02:05PM (#29152934)
What's wrong with isolationism?