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Re:Interview with Charlie Munger on Controversial UCSB Dorm by Kaibeezy on Saturday November 06, 2021 @11:41AM (#29131130)
As a hundred-thousandaire with an architecture degree and my own don’t-give-a-rat’s-ass ‘tude, I’m here to say: this building is not fit for human habitation, Charlie Munger is a fool, and the UCSB chancellor will be lucky to get part of his tongue back out of Munger’s sphincter.

For a billion $ he could have built a lovely ‘academical village’ with every kind of amenity and a wide variety of rooms for every preference. This is a tenement, a warehouse for living people, in the worst 1900 Lower East Side sense, minus some of the fire and sanitation risk. Suitable for vermin, not scholars.

See also Jacob Riis, How the Other Half Lives, 1890.

A citizens’ movement resulted in the organization of a Board of Health and the adoption of the “Tenement-House Act” of 1867, the first step toward remedial legislation. ... The dark bedroom fell under the ban first. In that year the Board ordered the cutting of more than forty-six thousand windows in interior rooms, chiefly for ventilation—for little or no light was to be had from the dark hallways. Air-shafts were unknown. The saw had a job all that summer; by early fall nearly all the orders had been carried out. Not without opposition; obstacles were thrown in the way of the officials on the one side by the owners of the tenements, who saw in every order to repair or clean up only an item of added expense to diminish their income from the rent; on the other side by the tenants themselves, who had sunk, after a generation of unavailing protest, to the level of their surroundings, and were at last content to remain there.

https://www.gutenberg.org/files/45502/45502-h/45502-h.htm

Re:Interview with Charlie Munger on Controversial UCSB Dorm by devwastaken on Saturday November 06, 2021 @12:02PM (#29131334)
Housing and living costs have gone insane. Personally I don't care about a window, I care about having a space I can study, work, and not deal with a bad roommate. I care about it being affordable, with access to a kitchen.

The way munger is going about it is a ridiculous amount of money, and I heavily doubt it will be built right. But the concept itself, to me, is a worthy tradeoff if it means reduced costs and better benefits. A window is not a benefit I care about.

Re:Interview with Charlie Munger on Controversial UCSB Dorm by newsclues on Saturday November 06, 2021 @12:13PM (#29131428)
Do you currently live in a windowless room?

Have you experienced being in a windowless room for a long period of time?

It’s not a luxury.

Re:Interview with Charlie Munger on Controversial UCSB Dorm by rkk3 on Saturday November 06, 2021 @12:28PM (#29131571)
It's not as though they won't ever see the sun, they just need to leave their room, its SoCal ffs

They will be living in a vibrant college community, with common areas, beaches, parks, libraries etc...

I've lived in a room with a Window against a brick wall in NYC.

Re:Interview with Charlie Munger on Controversial UCSB Dorm by newsclues on Saturday November 06, 2021 @07:28PM (#29134860)
From my window I can see junkies shitting, but I still get some light, and air.

I’ve been in a windowless prison cell, it sucks.

Re:Interview with Charlie Munger on Controversial UCSB Dorm by rkk3 on Saturday November 06, 2021 @08:07PM (#29135088)
> I’ve been in a windowless prison cell, it sucks.

That doesn't sound pleasant but college students aren't prisoners locked in their dorm rooms.

Re:Interview with Charlie Munger on Controversial UCSB Dorm by newsclues on Sunday November 07, 2021 @06:36AM (#29138559)
I studied computer science in Canada.

I recall being stuck in a room for days working in winter

Re:Interview with Charlie Munger on Controversial UCSB Dorm by rkk3 on Sunday November 07, 2021 @09:03AM (#29139506)
Not that relevant since at UCSB the "winter" is a chilly 60 degree's...

And FWIW I went to school in a similar climate to yours and was never "stuck in a room for days". How did you get to class? How did you get food?

Re:Interview with Charlie Munger on Controversial UCSB Dorm by devwastaken on Saturday November 06, 2021 @12:52PM (#29131770)
I lived in a room where the window had to be boarded up and insulated all through the winter. I would much rather be able to live in that room than nowhere at all.
Re:Interview with Charlie Munger on Controversial UCSB Dorm by sparksparkapach on Saturday November 06, 2021 @12:44PM (#29131703)
College kids smell very bad, windows were the one thing that would let people air out their smelly rooms. Windowless rooms are a terrible idea.
Re:Interview with Charlie Munger on Controversial UCSB Dorm by devwastaken on Saturday November 06, 2021 @12:58PM (#29131815)
Ventilation, and access to showers.
Re:Interview with Charlie Munger on Controversial UCSB Dorm by nouveaux on Saturday November 06, 2021 @11:50AM (#29131212)
I know someone who lived out of his car at UC Berkeley because he couldn't afford the rent. He would have loved the option for a room with no windows.

I don't care for Munger. With that said, there's a huge disconnect here with your argument unless you can show a reasonable solution. There are poor people now who need housing. We can just build something subpar and help lift people out of homelessness.

Re:Interview with Charlie Munger on Controversial UCSB Dorm by PeterisP on Saturday November 06, 2021 @11:56AM (#29131278)
The expected prices - 330k per room - is not an effective way to provide for poor people who need housing. If that is what you want to do, then you need to build cheap housing, not a monstrosity that manages to be both barely livable and also very expensive.
Re:Interview with Charlie Munger on Controversial UCSB Dorm by ZoomerCretin on Saturday November 06, 2021 @12:41PM (#29131681)
>If that is what you want to do, then you need to build cheap housing

The powerful land-speculation lobby (Monoplex owners) block every attempt at this. Munger Hall is the result. If you don't like that this is being built, your quarrel is with the suburban climate arsonists who hold up every development for extensive review until it dies.

Re:Interview with Charlie Munger on Controversial UCSB Dorm by nouveaux on Saturday November 06, 2021 @02:41PM (#29132720)
I posted another comment comparing this to UC Berkeley's new dorm. Munger Hall is cheaper by $360 per sq ft.

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29132614

Re:Interview with Charlie Munger on Controversial UCSB Dorm by Kaibeezy on Saturday November 06, 2021 @11:56AM (#29131274)
Humans have been building buildings for a pretty long time. So I would propose that my reasonable solution is every other building that’s ever been built.
Re:Interview with Charlie Munger on Controversial UCSB Dorm by nouveaux on Saturday November 06, 2021 @12:03PM (#29131345)
The problem is that labor and material cost continues to go up. As an architect yourself, I suspect you're not working for minimum wage. Given the thoughtful comment you posted originally, you seem like someone who puts in good work. People who put in good work deserve raises.

I dont know how to solve for rising costs. I do know that if I cannot afford something nice, I have to settle for something subpar. I'm not sure how else to deal with the issue.

Re:Interview with Charlie Munger on Controversial UCSB Dorm by krisoft on Saturday November 06, 2021 @01:01PM (#29131844)
Architects needs to be paid, something something, therefore we build bedrooms without windows. Sounds a bit like the underpants gnome reasoning to me.

I would understand if someone crunched the numbers and after a long and detailed reasoning they would have come up with this solution as the only one which can potentially work. But as far as I understand that is not what happened here. The donor has aspirations to be an architecture too and stipulated that this is the only way his money can be spent. No deviations from the plan are acceptable.

Re:Interview with Charlie Munger on Controversial UCSB Dorm by Kaibeezy on Saturday November 06, 2021 @12:25PM (#29131542)
There is an infinity of solutions for any building program. Eliminating windows solves a couple of problems, but creates many others. Throughout human history, windowless cells have been reserved for very few situations, such as extreme punishment, or a cheap cabin on a Disney cruise (arguably overlapping cases).
Re:Interview with Charlie Munger on Controversial UCSB Dorm by aikinai on Saturday November 06, 2021 @12:58PM (#29131810)
I really don’t understand how everyone’s freaking out about the window and alluding to prison and punishment but cramming two or three strangers into one tiny, old room is perfectly fine as the status quo.
Re:Interview with Charlie Munger on Controversial UCSB Dorm by Kaibeezy on Sunday November 07, 2021 @08:23AM (#29139248)
Imagine... you can solve for both!
Re:Interview with Charlie Munger on Controversial UCSB Dorm by sudosysgen on Saturday November 06, 2021 @11:55AM (#29131267)
These rooms cost 330 000$ US dollars to build, excluding the land.

For that price you can build a three bedroom condo with amenities.

This is a false dilemma. Little money is being saved here.

Re:Interview with Charlie Munger on Controversial UCSB Dorm by nouveaux on Saturday November 06, 2021 @11:57AM (#29131291)
I posted this in another comment:

"Given the high construction cost everywhere, this is not surprising. I had a friend with a backyard slopping down a hill. He got some quotes to put in a deck and redo his yard. No one quoted anything less than 200k."

Both of these situations are in California. Construction costs are extremely high right now.

Re:Interview with Charlie Munger on Controversial UCSB Dorm by sudosysgen on Saturday November 06, 2021 @12:02PM (#29131342)
Look. This isn't how it works. What happened is that no contractor thought it was worthwhile to take on a small project when they were busy with bigger fish. So they quoted him a ridiculous price.

It's not because it would actually cost them 200 000$ in labour and material to build a deck and redo a yard.

Besides, for a billion dollar you're not dealing with local contractors, at that price you can even contract international companies, let alone bring in labour from the rest of the country.

Re:Interview with Charlie Munger on Controversial UCSB Dorm by TigeriusKirk on Saturday November 06, 2021 @12:19PM (#29131491)
What should a dorm building cost per room? Can you show a comparable project in California to support that estimate?
Re:Interview with Charlie Munger on Controversial UCSB Dorm by sudosysgen on Saturday November 06, 2021 @01:06PM (#29131888)
The average cost of a condo unit in the state of California is around 400 000$ :https://homeguides.sfgate.com/california-condo-vs-house-9255... https://la.curbed.com/2019/1/23/18194592/los-angeles-condos-...

Including the cost of land, for a full condo. It would correspond to a construction price of a condo of ~300 000$.

A dormitory room is going to cost less than a condo.

Re:Interview with Charlie Munger on Controversial UCSB Dorm by TigeriusKirk on Saturday November 06, 2021 @01:18PM (#29131981)
Units built for the homeless in Los Angeles are costing $500,000 and up.

"When Los Angeles voters approved Prop. HHH in 2016, city officials predicted units would cost $350,000 to $414,000. In reality, prices have jumped to as much as $701,000 per unit, with 60 percent of the living spaces expected to exceed half a million dollars each."

You'll notice even the low end that was promoted to voters is higher than $330,000.

https://www.dailynews.com/2020/02/21/prop-hhh-projects-in-la...

Re:Interview with Charlie Munger on Controversial UCSB Dorm by sudosysgen on Saturday November 06, 2021 @02:06PM (#29132385)
That includes the cost of the land. The UCSB proposal doesn't include it.

This construction has to deal with NIMBYs and related delays, again UCSB doesn't have to bother with that.

And most of all these aren't single occupancy units. They are units for 2-3 people.

So yes, construction costs would be around the 350k mark when you take into account the land, for multi bedroom units, versus a single bedroom.

Re:Interview with Charlie Munger on Controversial UCSB Dorm by LegitShady on Saturday November 06, 2021 @01:12PM (#29131952)
what kind of slope? what does "redo his yard" mean? How much earth has to be moved? The deck is likely a small addendum to the cost of the earthwork, so its silly to talk about the deck as if its the same project.
Re:Interview with Charlie Munger on Controversial UCSB Dorm by klyrs on Saturday November 06, 2021 @12:21PM (#29131504)
Everywhere I've looked, it appears that California building codes require that bedrooms have windows, but that never seems to come up in these discussions. Are you familiar with the area? Would this building even be legal, or is there a loophole for student housing or something?
Re:Interview with Charlie Munger on Controversial UCSB Dorm by Kaibeezy on Saturday November 06, 2021 @12:28PM (#29131570)
The article mentions that UCSB essentially runs its own separate building department. Guess what, that department answers to the same idiot who decides whether to accept billion $ gifts from other idiots. Et voilà!
Re:Interview with Charlie Munger on Controversial UCSB Dorm by fastaguy88 on Saturday November 06, 2021 @02:18PM (#29132514)
In general, commercial and institutional buildings do not have to meet the same building codes as private residences. Try to find an outlet in a hospital room the next time you visit a sick friend. None of this one outlet on every wall and every 8 ft.
Re:Interview with Charlie Munger on Controversial UCSB Dorm by pphysch on Saturday November 06, 2021 @01:01PM (#29131848)
Did you get your architecture degree in 1890 as well? High density human habitats are infinitely better with modern technology. Central AC and dynamic electrical lighting, for starters.
Re:Interview with Charlie Munger on Controversial UCSB Dorm by Kaibeezy on Saturday November 06, 2021 @01:06PM (#29131889)
SPF. What could go wrong?
Re:Interview with Charlie Munger on Controversial UCSB Dorm by Aloha on Saturday November 06, 2021 @01:03PM (#29131862)
Where would you construct this to solve the housing problem within a reasonable distance of UCSB?
Re:Interview with Charlie Munger on Controversial UCSB Dorm by Kaibeezy on Saturday November 06, 2021 @01:11PM (#29131946)
gears.kitten.snippet
Re:Interview with Charlie Munger on Controversial UCSB Dorm by Kaibeezy on Saturday November 06, 2021 @05:46PM (#29134088)
Anyone? Bueller?
Re:Interview with Charlie Munger on Controversial UCSB Dorm by itronitron on Saturday November 06, 2021 @12:11PM (#29131412)
"I think we're crazy to allow it.", Charles Munger, 2021