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Re:Stockholm parents built their own school app, then the ci... by Diggsey on Thursday November 04, 2021 @11:03AM (#29108069)
That's absolutely micromanaging and negative.

The goal of school isn't just to pass the tests. If a kid fails to revise for a test, but it doesn't matter because their parent will just look up the schedule and force them to revise, then they learn nothing beyond what's in the test.

If they fail to revise and as a result do badly at the test, then next time they might actually take the initiative and revise through their own motivation, and that's a far more valuable skill than anything that might actually be in the test.

Re:Stockholm parents built their own school app, then the ci... by deltarholamda on Thursday November 04, 2021 @11:39AM (#29108543)
>That's absolutely micromanaging and negative

Not really. Schooling is largely targeted towards the great masses in the middle of the Bell curve. These kids will need help, prodding, and other forms of encouragement in order to keep their basic schoolwork up.

There are a smaller number of kids on the left and right tails that will, for the former, never make any effort; and for the latter, will require nothing other than support. That's just the way things are, I didn't make it that way, and there is nearly nothing that can be done to change it, and recognizing that fact will do more for most children than trying to pretend it doesn't exist.

The mass of kids who need the aid of their parents are helped when the parents can follow along. I have to use a system similar to the broken Swedish one for my kids. It's a mishmash of various systems, and sometimes teachers just give up and use something else, or use a less appropriate method (like a shared Google doc or similar). Keeping up with simple things like "when is the next math test" is a real chore.

While it would be great to be able to instill "initiative" into the souls of kids, it's unlikely to work. Unless you happen to know of a magick elixir that can do so, in which case there are a crapload of adults who could use a dose of this wizardry.

It helps to not romanticize children. Kids are dumb. Even the smart ones. They have little life experience, and their brains are still wired in such a way that they struggle to see consequences. Most of schooling is just a grind to slowly teach them enough basics that they can operate relatively efficiently. Left to their own devices, they will play games, eat candy, and believe that they will make a living as a Twitch streamer or something equally ridiculous.

Re:Stockholm parents built their own school app, then the ci... by wonderwonder on Thursday November 04, 2021 @11:11AM (#29108163)
Thanks for the feedback on my parenting style Diggsey, I will be on the lookout for a visit from child services for the terrible crime of paying attention to my kids results at school, making sure they do their homework and sitting down and studying with them for their tests. I only hope they can forgive me when they are older.
Re:Stockholm parents built their own school app, then the ci... by azinman2 on Thursday November 04, 2021 @12:22PM (#29109095)
I’ve learned that once you have dogs or children, everyone else seems to have a very important opinion on what you should do with your own, all related services, etc.
Re:Stockholm parents built their own school app, then the ci... by true_religion on Thursday November 04, 2021 @03:05PM (#29111231)
You're saying that the negative results of failing a test should come from the school and not the parent. I don't see why this is true.

A school will grade a student down, but often kids will simply just not care about that unless there's impetus to do so from their peer group or people they rely on as a role models (e.g. parents).

Also, when talking about kids... I think it's useful to clarify what age group you think a particular standard applies to. Kindergarteners need more parent care and management than secondary schoolers. It's more okay for a 6 year old to fail a test, than a 17 year old prepping for university. The stakes are different, and the mental abilities of the child are different. What is reasonable for one is not necessarily reasonable for another.

Re:Stockholm parents built their own school app, then the ci... by _carbyau_ on Thursday November 04, 2021 @08:28PM (#29114113)
I see you and GP as arguing slightly different points.

I don't want an itinerary app. I don't want to know the schedule/homework directly.

But I will absolutely ask my kid if they know, and make the point that they should know, and work with them to remediate that if required.

And as they learn I will get to step back a bit at a time and let them go for it.

Re:Stockholm parents built their own school app, then the ci... by mattbee on Thursday November 04, 2021 @02:40PM (#29110959)
If they fail to revise and as a result do badly at the test, then next time they might actually take the initiative and revise

Hahaha no. Have you met an 8 year old? Homo economicus they are not.

Re:Stockholm parents built their own school app, then the ci... by renewiltord on Thursday November 04, 2021 @12:15PM (#29108995)
Interesting strategy. How have your kids performed under it?
Re:Stockholm parents built their own school app, then the ci... by watwut on Thursday November 04, 2021 @02:54PM (#29111093)
Not him, but generally to large extend I have that strategy and kids do well. Both have good grades and are motivated. Obvious caveat is that if their grades were not good, I would get involved more. When their grades fallen a bit, I was there telling them that they need to learn, analyzing test with them and so on and blah blah. When homework was not done, I got involved for a while until the kid got into habit of doing it. Other obvious caveat is that when they ask for help, I always come in to help.

The thing is, hands off approach really works and motivates kids - but it still requires attention and correction. And it does not work with all kids at all ages.

Most people remember 15 years old self and assume kids all ages are as mature as they remember themselves. Meanwhile, most 6 years old are much less developed.

Re:Stockholm parents built their own school app, then the ci... by renewiltord on Thursday November 04, 2021 @03:27PM (#29111494)
How did you know the homework wasn’t done?
Re:Stockholm parents built their own school app, then the ci... by watwut on Thursday November 04, 2021 @03:35PM (#29111573)
When homework is not done, teacher sends the email. Or gave the kid black point and then the kid was unhappy about it and told me. If it did not, that teacher would also send mail, but after like 2-3 points within short period (don't know the exact rules).

The other option is to ask in the evening "have you done homework". One of my kids would never lie and other only rarely, so it worked.

To add to it, old system was not freedom. One feature of old "parents know only what kids tell them" system was that many parents learned about issues only when inevitable end of semester report/grades came. At that point, issues grew large. Even worst, parents were surprised and shocked, tended to react badly, punish the kid , yell, beat them etc. I remember reading about flux of kids running away each time reports come.

Re:Stockholm parents built their own school app, then the ci... by renewiltord on Thursday November 04, 2021 @05:32PM (#29112775)
Okay, with this email business we’re back with the “micromanaging”.
Re:Stockholm parents built their own school app, then the ci... by watwut on Friday November 05, 2021 @03:14AM (#29116268)
In which alternative universe is teacher telling parent that homework 7 years old was not done micromanaging? Even among adults, analyst telling project manager you are not doing tasks right is not micromanaging. Or your peer developer telling pm your quality of work is bad. It is completely absurd.

The whole point of child raising is to raise the child. Not to go "kiddy, if you are not born organized and attentive, tough luck, we gonna do nothing and then blame you for being bad in school when you grow".

Re:Stockholm parents built their own school app, then the ci... by renewiltord on Friday November 05, 2021 @12:58PM (#29121922)
Actually, I agree with that position, which is why I started this sub thread curious about how this comment played out https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29108069

My point is that by the standards of that comment, you are micromanaging. I think those standards are ridiculous, though.

Plainly, parents of successful kids are all very involved. This sort of “you sink or swim on your own merits” nonsense is moronic bullshit.

Re:Stockholm parents built their own school app, then the ci... by losvedir on Thursday November 04, 2021 @07:23PM (#29113668)
FYI in English "revise" means something like "edit". You probably meant "review". I know in Spanish "revisar" can mean to review, so that caught my eye, and thought you might be tricked by a false cognate.
Re:Stockholm parents built their own school app, then the ci... by koilke on Thursday November 04, 2021 @09:29PM (#29114494)
Perhaps British English?

(US review) to study again something you have already learned, in preparation for an exam: We're revising (algebra) for the test tomorrow.

https://dictionary.cambridge.org/ja/dictionary/english/revis...

Re:Stockholm parents built their own school app, then the ci... by jacobolus on Thursday November 04, 2021 @09:22PM (#29114444)
British English "revise" = American English "study".
Re:Stockholm parents built their own school app, then the ci... by losvedir on Thursday November 04, 2021 @09:37PM (#29114536)
Oh, TIL, thanks!