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Re:Kazakhstan to restrict crypto miners amid power shortages by rfd4sgmk8u on Wednesday November 03, 2021 @11:17AM (#29095886)
No, never. Bitcoin will be PoW forever. PoS is and will never have the same security properties of PoW. Its bad for decentralization, its bad for censorship resistance, and its bad for the free world.
Re:Kazakhstan to restrict crypto miners amid power shortages by Fiahil on Wednesday November 03, 2021 @11:22AM (#29095953)
I didn't meant for Bitcoin to transition to PoS, but rather everyone using Ethereum instead of Bitcoin because it's now PoS.
Re:Kazakhstan to restrict crypto miners amid power shortages by rfd4sgmk8u on Wednesday November 03, 2021 @11:25AM (#29095989)
Yeaaaaah i will believe it when i see it. I don't think betting the economy on changing airplane engines mid-flight is a good play. My prediction is that if ETH switches to a PoS consensus model, the value will TANK. If this happens at all. I know the PoS timeline, I think it is fiction.
Re:Kazakhstan to restrict crypto miners amid power shortages by whatisthiseven on Wednesday November 03, 2021 @11:48AM (#29096293)
Ironically, ETH switching to PoS is the reason I am holding the currency.

In the future I expect all PoW cryptocurrencies to be banned, or severely hobbled, because of their electricity usage and e-waste. I have a long bet on ETH specifically because of its eventual move to PoS. Bitcoin doesn't even have a plan, and when the legal landscape changes it will be in the worst position to pivot.

We'll just have to see what the future holds. But I got my money down.

Re:Kazakhstan to restrict crypto miners amid power shortages by rfd4sgmk8u on Wednesday November 03, 2021 @12:18PM (#29096758)
Nah, I don't think it can be banned. At least not in the non-authoritarian parts of the world.

Even if it is, they would need to break my fingers to prevent me running a Bitcoin node. And I will get the blocks via Satellite. If there was a credible threat, we would go somewhere it is not.

If your economic thesis is based on hoping the government bans something, why are you even playing with state-resistant decentralized monetary systems?

Re:Kazakhstan to restrict crypto miners amid power shortages by oblio on Wednesday November 03, 2021 @01:34PM (#29097831)
> Nah, I don't think it can be banned. At least not in the non-authoritarian parts of the world.

Why can't it be banned? It's wasteful and closer to a Ponzi scheme than an actual currency.

> Even if it is, they would need to break my fingers to prevent me running a Bitcoin node. And I will get the blocks via Satellite. If there was a credible threat, we would go somewhere it is not.

That could be hard if many of the worthwhile places ban it :-)

> If your economic thesis is based on hoping the government bans something, why are you even playing with state-resistant decentralized monetary systems?

Most people in crypto are in it for the money, not for idealism.

Re:Kazakhstan to restrict crypto miners amid power shortages by rfd4sgmk8u on Wednesday November 03, 2021 @03:52PM (#29099469)
As someone who has been in this space a long time, I assure you I am idealistic in my positions. Hopelessly idealistic.

What does Ban even mean? That it is illegal to run in places like the US? Very unlikely, and as more institutional money flows into it, it grows more unlikely. Some places are starting to put 401k/pension funds into it. Some places are raising it as legal tender. There is also that 1st amendment thing.

So will it banned like drinking straws? (which are still available) Or banned like drugs? (which are still available).

I feel you WANT it to be banned because it tickles your authoritarian tendencies. I am glad we live in a world, at least today, where your wishes are ignored.

Re:Kazakhstan to restrict crypto miners amid power shortages by oblio on Wednesday November 03, 2021 @05:08PM (#29100285)
This discussion is worth revisiting in 10 years :-)
Re:Kazakhstan to restrict crypto miners amid power shortages by crummy on Wednesday November 03, 2021 @06:48PM (#29101481)
How is the first amendment relevant here?
Re:Kazakhstan to restrict crypto miners amid power shortages by rfd4sgmk8u on Wednesday November 03, 2021 @07:05PM (#29101663)
The early cryptography wars were fought over code as speech.

https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2015/04/remembering-case-estab...

There is an argument to be made that running software that speaks a protocol is an extension of speech.

The mental position that wants to ban cryptocurrency is the same one that that wanted to ban/suppress cryptography in the 90s.

Re:Kazakhstan to restrict crypto miners amid power shortages by whatisthiseven on Wednesday November 03, 2021 @11:26PM (#29103396)
"If your economic thesis is based on hoping the government bans something, why are you even playing with state-resistant decentralized monetary systems? "

Because I want to make money? I don't see why that matters.

Re:Kazakhstan to restrict crypto miners amid power shortages by ryan_lane on Thursday November 04, 2021 @12:43AM (#29103728)
I don't need or want the technology to be banned. I want mining operations to be illegal in the US, and I want it to be illegal to convert to/from USD.

If you still want to use it then, enjoy.

Re:Kazakhstan to restrict crypto miners amid power shortages by trevyn on Wednesday November 03, 2021 @12:28PM (#29096869)
I wonder what the economics are like for a Starship-delivered nuclear-powered Bitcoin mine in space…
Re:Kazakhstan to restrict crypto miners amid power shortages by TacticalCoder on Wednesday November 03, 2021 @12:59PM (#29097334)
Why would Ethereum's value tank when it shall be switching entirely to PoS (the PoS chain is already up and running perfectly fine btw)?

Ethereum shall also lower the block reward, lower the fees, and make more people hold on to their ETH to get the staking reward.

Why would the price tank? Also ETH is already at 1/2th the "market cap" of Bitcoin, so a takeover is definitely not unthinkable.

Re:Kazakhstan to restrict crypto miners amid power shortages by swalsh on Wednesday November 03, 2021 @01:54PM (#29098126)
I'm currently staking ETH 2.0 Many people are.
Re:Kazakhstan to restrict crypto miners amid power shortages by L33tCrown on Wednesday November 03, 2021 @03:13PM (#29099024)
Actually PoW accentuates the concentration of miners, while in Ethereum 2 you are limited to a few mining machine, thus distributing more equally the mining power.
Re:Kazakhstan to restrict crypto miners amid power shortages by ilammy on Wednesday November 03, 2021 @06:26PM (#29101248)
Bitcoin miners per se do not control Bitcoin network. They are the backbone, but the nodes ultimately decide whether they include a mined block or not. Validating blocks is way cheaper than mining them. Expensive mining process only ensures that you can't easily flood the network with bogus blocks.
Re:Kazakhstan to restrict crypto miners amid power shortages by rfd4sgmk8u on Wednesday November 03, 2021 @03:58PM (#29099534)
Actually, no, the opposite. One of the fundamental problems with PoS is that it has no externally observable metric that a block is correct. PoW is trivially externally verifiable. This is good for decentralization. There can be no lies from the miners.
Re:Kazakhstan to restrict crypto miners amid power shortages by sushisource on Wednesday November 03, 2021 @12:36PM (#29096992)
Bad for the free world? That's a bit of a fucking stretch. I think you can pretty comfortably argue the power and e-waste situation created by PoW is much worse for the "free world" than a slightly stronger consensus mechanism for a speculative value store.
Re:Kazakhstan to restrict crypto miners amid power shortages by trevyn on Wednesday November 03, 2021 @12:46PM (#29097141)
I haven’t dug into this, but I do intuitively sense some risks with PoS. Can anyone recommend a good, thoughtful writeup of the specific risks?