News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:EU Chatcontrol 2.0 [video] by wolverine876 on Monday November 01, 2021 @01:41PM (#29070126)
Elect someone else
Re:EU Chatcontrol 2.0 [video] by no_time on Monday November 01, 2021 @02:30PM (#29070862)
Not so simple since you only have one vote and politicians have thousands of choices to make during their time in office.

I strongly oppose domestic spying laws like this, AND I oppose uneducated immigration too. There is no party that shares both of these views.

In other words the current system will always boil down to choosing between bad options that will screw you over some way or another. I wish there was an alternative...

Re:EU Chatcontrol 2.0 [video] by A_non_e-moose on Monday November 01, 2021 @03:33PM (#29071834)
Direct democracy a la Switzerland where issues are put up for vote for the entire population?

Although for direct democracy to be effective you would need a highly educated and politically engaged population

Re:EU Chatcontrol 2.0 [video] by no_time on Monday November 01, 2021 @04:00PM (#29072232)
Yes something like that. I don't have high hopes of that ever happening here (Hungary) though
Re:EU Chatcontrol 2.0 [video] by ChuckNorris89 on Monday November 01, 2021 @03:56PM (#29072152)
Judging by how low the vaccination rate is for rich and developed Switzerland in comparison to poorer countries like Spain or Portugal, I stopped assuming that most of the population there is "highly educated" as you put it. No offense to the Swiss.

Maybe some Swiss can clarify why their population is so anti-vax, as it boggles my mind.

My point is not to say that such a direct democratic system wouldn't be effective, I'm just saying that correlation != causation, as in the case of Switzerland, I attribute its success as a country more to it being a neutral banking heaven for the world elite for decades and being in a very fortunate geo-political location that was spared the destruction of war which helped it attract tons of foreign talent and capital, rather than to its direct democratic system and domestic educated population. I could also be wrong of course.

Re:EU Chatcontrol 2.0 [video] by mmdoda on Monday November 01, 2021 @04:40PM (#29072759)
I'm sorry but you are spreading misinformation. The Swiss are not anti-vax in general and they are not against the Covid vaccine. Switzerland is 63.7% vaccinated.

In any case not getting the vaccine doesn't make someone uneducated. Switzerland has some of the best schools and universities in the world. In 2018, 44% of 25-64 year-olds had completed a tertiary qualification in Switzerland, compared to 39% on average across OECD countries. [1]

[1] https://www.oecd.org/education/education-at-a-glance/EAG2019...

Re:EU Chatcontrol 2.0 [video] by ChuckNorris89 on Monday November 01, 2021 @04:49PM (#29072923)
>I'm sorry but you are spreading misinformation.

Which misinformation did I spread?

>Switzerland is 63.7% vaccinated.

Which I said I find it to be very low in comparison to countries like Spain and Portugal where the rate is nearly 100% so having only 64% points to a large number of anti-vaxers similar to Eastern Europe.

>In any case not getting the vaccine doesn't make someone uneducated.

No? Then what does it make the other 36% who refuse to get vaccinated? En-masse refusal of a potentially life saving vaccine that will help end the pandemic doesn't really scream intelligence and education, does it?

Re:EU Chatcontrol 2.0 [video] by monkeywork on Monday November 01, 2021 @05:19PM (#29073255)
creating your own definitions or metrics as to what would qualify someone as educated isn't helpful in a discussion.

you are also making assumptions that those who aren't yet vaccinated are anti-vax, which again isn't always the case they may have their own reasons for delaying or perhaps are perfectly fine with vaccines in general but distrust this particular one for whatever reason.

A person can be educated person can still be an unreasonable one.

Re:EU Chatcontrol 2.0 [video] by ChuckNorris89 on Monday November 01, 2021 @06:37PM (#29074184)
>they may have their own reasons for delaying or perhaps are perfectly fine with vaccines in general but distrust this particular one for whatever reason.

So what does the swiss population know that the scientific and medical communities don't?

Re:EU Chatcontrol 2.0 [video] by spidersouris on Monday November 01, 2021 @04:32PM (#29072657)
Switzerland has 64% of its population vaccinated [1]. It's not that low compared to other Western countries. It's as much as the United States [2]. What makes you say that?

[1] https://graphics.reuters.com/world-coronavirus-tracker-and-m...

[2] https://graphics.reuters.com/world-coronavirus-tracker-and-m...

Re:EU Chatcontrol 2.0 [video] by ChuckNorris89 on Monday November 01, 2021 @04:35PM (#29072689)
And where did I mention the US?

Portugal is almost 100% vaccinated, Switzerland is at 64% which puts it closer to the former comunist EU members like Slovakia.

That's a massive difference, and to me, says something about the country's population/society.

Re:EU Chatcontrol 2.0 [video] by nix23 on Tuesday November 02, 2021 @06:44AM (#29079352)
Spain trows Musicians into jails for criticizing the King...
Re:EU Chatcontrol 2.0 [video] by JumpCrisscross on Monday November 01, 2021 @04:24PM (#29072565)
> I strongly oppose domestic spying laws like this, AND I oppose uneducated immigration too. There is no party that shares both of these views.

Democracy requires compromise. There will never be a party that perfectly matches your views. You prioritize the ones you care about, find common ground and help those who will advance your interests.

Re:EU Chatcontrol 2.0 [video] by wolverine876 on Monday November 01, 2021 @05:18PM (#29073247)
320 million other people deserve an equal say, so probably you won't - and shouldn't - get exactly what you want (nor should I).

I don't like uneducated voters.

Re:EU Chatcontrol 2.0 [video] by Abfrage on Monday November 01, 2021 @02:06PM (#29070503)
The election to the EU Parliament is a farce. The parliament has no power. It cannot propose laws. It only votes on the laws of the Commission. In the last election, the people could elect the President of the Commission. The person elected did not get the office. They simply put von der Leyen in that position while she was investigated in the German parliament.
Re:EU Chatcontrol 2.0 [video] by wolverine876 on Monday November 01, 2021 @05:23PM (#29073313)
Having done a lot of work in politics, I see the same things frequently: how easy it is for even a few people to accomplish things with a little effort (and that's with a level of organization and management that is shockingly low - as in, if you have competent business skills, you'll walk in and think 'this can't possibly be as bad as it looks'), and then on the outside there are a lot of people calling it a 'farce', saying it's hopeless, etc. etc. It's just kind of silly, like people telling me heavier-than-air flight is impossible. OK, if that's what you obviously want to think.

It's like the naysayers for anything, such as startups. 'It doesn't work', 'it can't be done', 'nobody will let you', blah blah blah. And all the time you are doing it. What can you say to them?

Re:EU Chatcontrol 2.0 [video] by tsimionescu on Monday November 01, 2021 @03:02PM (#29071358)
> In the last election, the people could elect the President of the Commission.

What are you basing this on? The President of the Commission is, by law, proposed by the European Council and validated or not by the European Parliament. Since there was no single majority party after the election, it's not completely surprising that backroom deals led to a different president than the desire of the party holding the most seats.

Re:EU Chatcontrol 2.0 [video] by 66fm472tjy7 on Monday November 01, 2021 @03:56PM (#29072168)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/President_of_the_European_Comm...

> The Spitzenkandidat of the largest party would then have a mandate to assume the Commission Presidency

While this is not de jure, German-speaking media did report on the 2019 election as if the above were consensus. It is my understanding that this was not the case in all EU countries.

Re:EU Chatcontrol 2.0 [video] by tsimionescu on Tuesday November 02, 2021 @01:35AM (#29077468)
Interesting, I had never heard of this, and this was not in any way how the election was presented in Romania where I live.
Re:EU Chatcontrol 2.0 [video] by pas on Monday November 01, 2021 @02:10PM (#29070561)
The power to veto is not a farce.
Re:EU Chatcontrol 2.0 [video] by blibble on Monday November 01, 2021 @02:17PM (#29070672)
it is because the commission just has to bide its time

once the law is passed future parliaments can't modify or repeal it

Re:EU Chatcontrol 2.0 [video] by pas on Monday November 01, 2021 @02:27PM (#29070829)
it doesn't depend on time. the parliament can reject it every single time without it ever getting tired.

and since the MEPs represent the same people who elect governments who then delegate to the commission, it's strange if the commission continues to propose regulations that are unpopular.

Re:EU Chatcontrol 2.0 [video] by blibble on Monday November 01, 2021 @02:31PM (#29070886)
you're thinking on a sub 5 year scale

the commission can wait for a parliament that will pass its legislation

and once it's passed: that's it, future parliaments can do nothing about it

and if a member state wants it gone: it has to leave the EU entirely

and politically the commission is the same as it has always been (by design)

Re:EU Chatcontrol 2.0 [video] by pas on Monday November 01, 2021 @06:50PM (#29074291)
the commission does what the member states want. obviously it has its own agency in the matters, but members don't send someone who would totally disregard their wishes.

the whole problem with these security-privacy ideas is that the member governments want to reign in the Internet, just as they did with every other phenomena for the past hundreds of years. (with varying degrees of "success".)

CSAM is especially a big red cloth that catches the eye of governments. It's not like there was less child abuse before the Internet, and if there were absolutely no CSAM on it from tomorrow ther wouldn't be less actual abuse... :/

Re:EU Chatcontrol 2.0 [video] by squarefoot on Monday November 01, 2021 @02:02PM (#29070442)
Sometimes it's too late. The best dictator in the western world isn't the one who sends the army down the streets to shoot protesters, but the one who controls information so that people after years of being dazed by the same propaganda will vote him in power without any coercion. Sadly bad rulers sometimes have more resources than good ones, which turns out in more online/tv/radio/newspaper presence used to spread their propaganda.

If we could force somehow politicians to count on the same exact public exposure, from rallies to apparently trivial things such as tweets, that would possibly change something, but to me a similar scenario in this universe is near science fiction.