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Re:U.S. house prices are rising exponentially faster than in... by Emma_Goldman on Saturday October 30, 2021 @07:36AM (#29047984)
A great thought experiment, though not necessarily an entirely fictional one. Social housing schemes, and proposals for 'universal basic services', are common enough and ought to be the positive side to the deflation of the housing market.

Mortgages currently dominate the average person's life.

Re:U.S. house prices are rising exponentially faster than in... by agumonkey on Saturday October 30, 2021 @10:00AM (#29048812)
It's not thought experiment. Not long ago I was under state welfare and hosted near free. It changes how you approach your day. I was happily volunteering and working way more than people under salary (politics come into play and people start being jealous, and wanting more to do less because they don't want to be here, they "have to".. it's pain first system). Hence me saying, if people didn't have to pay rent, what would they do with their time ?
Re:U.S. house prices are rising exponentially faster than in... by VRay on Saturday October 30, 2021 @10:23AM (#29048995)
I don’t think it’s necessarily the case, but I’m a little worried that a UBI utopia would end up being some sort of Judge Dredd hellscape

I’ve taken long stretches off work and done all sorts of amazing, productive stuff during that time. I have friends whom I really respect completely fall apart when nobody’s ordering them around every day though.. they stop going outside, the lack of exercise and sunlight sends their meat suits into “depression mode”, and it’s a quick downward spiral

I’m hoping that having a whole society oriented around it would result in a more positive outcome

Re:U.S. house prices are rising exponentially faster than in... by throwaway6734 on Saturday October 30, 2021 @11:03AM (#29049315)
Agree. We would definitely need some social structures the encourage people to productively use their time
Re:U.S. house prices are rising exponentially faster than in... by jokethrowaway on Saturday October 30, 2021 @12:52PM (#29050220)
Congratulations, you just invented capitalism.
Re:U.S. house prices are rising exponentially faster than in... by agumonkey on Saturday October 30, 2021 @12:54PM (#29050248)
depends on what kind of incentives

if you make people seek calm and good social bonds (through cultural creations mostly) you may avoid capitalism runaways

Re:U.S. house prices are rising exponentially faster than in... by VRay on Saturday October 30, 2021 @02:14PM (#29050999)
You guys should check out some of Corey Doctorow's books or the Culture series, they describe theoretical post-scarcity futures not driven by capitalism where people still find fulfilling stuff to do
Re:U.S. house prices are rising exponentially faster than in... by agumonkey on Saturday October 30, 2021 @10:42AM (#29049129)
That is quite true, I'm not fully pushing for UBI because of unplanned large scale social issues, but there needs to be a rebalancing of the system.
Re:U.S. house prices are rising exponentially faster than in... by moduspol on Saturday October 30, 2021 @10:27AM (#29049021)
> Hence me saying, if people didn't have to pay rent, what would they do with their time ?

We already know. Look at housewives, people on disability, young people still living at home with their parents, and retirees. Arguably college students, too.

It is not the case that all (or most) people who don't have to pay rent suddenly spend significant amounts of their time volunteering. They pursue what they desire or find meaningful, just like everyone else. And it's not clear it's a better outcome than those who pay rent (or a mortgage).

Re:U.S. house prices are rising exponentially faster than in... by jokethrowaway on Saturday October 30, 2021 @12:42PM (#29050125)
Mhm, I would write books and toy software, mainly for myself and my kids - and definitely I would stop scrambling to provide value to someone else if I'm not rewarded in some way
Re:U.S. house prices are rising exponentially faster than in... by an9n on Saturday October 30, 2021 @08:09AM (#29048154)
> Mortgages currently dominate the average person's life.

Indeed, it's sickening, and there's a very well developed structure to stop the average person stepping outside of the system via a tiny house, van life etc.

Re:U.S. house prices are rising exponentially faster than in... by mlac on Saturday October 30, 2021 @08:32AM (#29048280)
The average person does not want a tiny house or van life. So it’s not a well developed structure built for “the average person”.

Tiny homes are the mobile home of this generation, except less widely adopted. But they will depreciate, widening the gap between those who chose to purchase a traditional house and those who chose a simpler approach.

Van life and tiny homes are not suitable for 99.99% of families with children.

Re:U.S. house prices are rising exponentially faster than in... by Spivak on Saturday October 30, 2021 @03:26PM (#29051593)
You're dis-agreeing with the parent. The problem is that for almost everyone houses are unaffordable without mortgages and the only alternatives to it -- smaller homes, mobile homes, vandwelling are bad. But they're bad not because of something fundamental but because we make it artificially harder for them.
Re:U.S. house prices are rising exponentially faster than in... by mlac on Wednesday November 03, 2021 @07:12AM (#29093109)
Thank you! That’s not how I interpreted that original post, but

It’s not that small houses are bad. Small houses (as I’d define it 1000-1750 sq ft for a 3 bedroom) are great.

But I still see it written as “if those structures were removed” that those alternatives are a suitable alternative to a stick-built house for the majority of people. I think they are all sub-optimal solutions that people should not be forced into unless they want to.

Re:U.S. house prices are rising exponentially faster than in... by system16 on Saturday October 30, 2021 @10:33AM (#29049065)
More people are trying out van life than ever before, but most quickly wake up to the fact that the reality is a far cry from the fantasy portrayed on social media. After realizing it's 1% staring pensively at canyons and sunsets, and 90% looking for parking and washrooms, most treat it like a road trip than a permanent lifestyle.
Re:U.S. house prices are rising exponentially faster than in... by MomoXenosaga on Saturday October 30, 2021 @10:26AM (#29049018)
Sounds like cope to me.

"I'm stepping out of the system" is actually "I'm too poor to stay in the system".

Re:U.S. house prices are rising exponentially faster than in... by Spivak on Saturday October 30, 2021 @03:32PM (#29051649)
Or literally anyone who's like "I want a life where I haven't bet my ability to have shelter against 30 years of my income and my ability to stay healthy and gainfully employed."

Like I'm a person who is part of this system because there's literally no other option. I want to get off Mr. Bone's wild ride but there's nothing really available to me.

Re:U.S. house prices are rising exponentially faster than in... by agumonkey on Saturday October 30, 2021 @10:51AM (#29049213)
Not necessarily, it could be a way to get away from constraint that forbids you to grow your life better.

Even with money, staying into western dense urban cities only give you one kind of life.

Re:U.S. house prices are rising exponentially faster than in... by baremetal on Saturday October 30, 2021 @10:53AM (#29049224)
im not too poor to stay in the system. but i am building my own tiny house right now. i just do not think being dependent on the system is a good idea for my future. maybe it is for yours.

i document some of my adventures here. https://www.instagram.com/l_eonine/

Re:U.S. house prices are rising exponentially faster than in... by MomoXenosaga on Saturday October 30, 2021 @11:42AM (#29049659)
That's great but I hope we can agree that most of society wants a house with a garden and a family dog. Trying to put those people into a tiny house or camper would lead to the revolution Marx dreamed of.
Re:U.S. house prices are rising exponentially faster than in... by tryauuum on Saturday October 30, 2021 @04:16PM (#29051974)
I absolutely do not want a big house with a garden, and I despise the idea of dog ownership.

Maybe your statement is true for the American society though

Re:U.S. house prices are rising exponentially faster than in... by baremetal on Saturday October 30, 2021 @12:32PM (#29050058)
then i suggest people might want to learn how to build their own house. because the trends suggest housing affordability isnt returning anytime soon.

i think thats about as anti-marx as it gets, no?

Re:U.S. house prices are rising exponentially faster than in... by dcolkitt on Saturday October 30, 2021 @09:25AM (#29048574)
There’s literally nothing stopping the average person from doing that, besides their own preferences.
Re:U.S. house prices are rising exponentially faster than in... by acdha on Saturday October 30, 2021 @10:24AM (#29049001)
Also various laws and regulations: van life is incompatible with many cities and is incompatible with schooling for children, possibly even child welfare laws. Zoning restrictions mean tiny houses can’t be built in many places.

Much of that is not unreasonable — e.g. I went to a high school which had a lot of children of migrant farm workers who were definitely held back by their parents’ need to migrate up and down California following the harvest. Stability has merit.

What I would focus on are the zoning laws forcing single-family houses, lawns, vast amounts of parking, etc. since those increase the cost of housing significantly and reduce supply. There are many owners who would consider subdividing housing, tiny houses/granny flats/basement apartments/etc. but can’t because that is banned outright or requires things like street access and subsidized parking which aren’t compatible with the available space.

Unfortunately, in the United States this also inevitably involves class and racism — the laws against density, people camping or living in vehicles, etc. usually trace back to fears of poor, often brown, people living outside of “their” neighborhoods and especially outnumbering the current residents. That sentiment is long-lived and hard to shake, no matter the professed politics of a community.

Re:U.S. house prices are rising exponentially faster than in... by dragonwriter on Saturday October 30, 2021 @04:17PM (#29051975)
> Mortgages currently dominate the average person's life.

It looks like ~65% of households own a home, and about the same percentage of homes have a mortgage; the average household doesn't even have a mortgage.