This, so, much. Working from home with a young kid around, it always feels like something's gonna fall, the cat is gonna fight back, mom is gonna get mad at him for some reason, or simply he needs me to go play with him. I never know if I have 5 minutes or 3 hours.
Nowadays I tend to not work so much during the day as I don't have the means to focus, then work into the night.
I've worked at home for about 17 years now. I have a 6 year old, two 3 year olds, and my wife is a stay at home mom. I don't get interrupted, and there's never been an age range where I would regularly get interrupted. At the most frequent, maybe once per week. Definitely not even once per day though.
There is no manual on how to be a parent. Don't tell our kids that we're making it up as we go.
During the stay home period it meant for us that everyday we scheduled who does 100% work at what time, and who takes care of the rest in the meantime (might mean light work while looking after things)
That meant switching back and forth the roles about once or twice everyday, including when the other needs to cook or go to groceries.
In this respect, I think there is just no way to have both parents 100% working at home with a kid needing attention, and trying to reach that will only make everyone miserable.
We were able to achieve this during covid with two kids doing distance learning as well. However, we were extremely fortunate that we were able to do shifts where my wife worked 7-3ish and I worked 3-midnight.
When I read your statement it feels like you're saying you think the OP is just throwing proclamations over the wall rather than sitting down and having a family discussion about how to ensure the day is arranged in everyone's best interest.
What happens if both work during regular office hours (as in my marriage)?
If you have very young kids, it's impossible to have a distraction free work environment at home unless you find someone to take care of the kids and enforce the no distractions rule.
People often assume, somewhat unfairly, that this person should be the mother. But what if mommy also has a professional career and ambitions?
During the pandemic, people who found working from home enjoyable tend to
a- not have very young children of an age they need constant watching or get bored if left to play alone, or
b- someone in the couple is a stay at home parent (usually the mother) who watches the children.
OP specifically mentioned this is not the scenario we are discussing.
"If you have very young kids, it's impossible to have a distraction free work environment at home unless you find someone to take care of the kids and enforce the no distractions rule."
Again, neither OP or I are arguing against this.
"Both parents are caregivers in a marriage, there's no single caregiver."
Again, this feels like an uncharitable reading of my statement. Of course there are two caregivers but often there is one person in charge of the kids, hence my caregiver (singular) statement. Which partner it is, is irrelevant.
"People often assume, somewhat unfairly, that this person should be the mother."
How is this relevant to this post?
Also, these comments about "mother" are irksome to me since it feels like you're accusing me (or OP) of implying something I'm not. Not that it really matters but my wife and I (a father) work full time and during the pandemic I was the caregiver during normal business hours while my wife retained a normal working hours schedule.
- This is NOT the norm. This matters because what's more interesting is the general case, not the exceptions.
- It affected your work, in this case of a man instead of a woman, so the point remains: WFH is very hard for working couples with young children.
As for the relevance of the impact on mothers: it is VERY relevant and highlights the inequality that still remains in Western society. People by default assume the mother will take care, it's happened in every situation and every couple I talked with, and it's my own experience as well.
I'm not accusing you of anything, and if you feel personally addressed, that's on you.
That may be true, but in this case we were specifically discussing an exception where gender was not relevant.
We have both simply adapted and now do our concentration-related tasks when our child is asleep.
My child sleeps maybe 1 hour in the afternoon and then during the night. Do you mean you can only concentrate then? What about coworkers who, quite reasonably, expect you to work with them and collaborate with projects during their work hours? What about meetings? What about emergencies in production, which never choose the most comfortable time to happen?
> no commuting
Agreed, this is the best of WFH, hands down.
But many people I met seem sold on the dream they can 'have it all' without thinking about the price
Another caregiver is a viable option, but then again the pandemic hit and in some countries, for a while, it was forbidden to have strangers at home and daycare was closed.
Many people simply assume the woman must be the caregiver. This assumption by default will affect you even in workplaces which pay lip service to equality. Source: me.
Establishing boundaries like "don't interrupt the person who's working" needs to be a discussion that happens between the whole family. Of course, the caregiver will be responsible for the physical enforcement but the caregiver should understand that it is in the long-term best interest of the whole family that the worker is able to have uninterrupted work time.
Also, by the age of 4 most kids are capable of understanding and learning to respect boundaries.
I don't think they're implying that. In fact they said "It can be impossible if both of you work" which you can extrapolate to "It can be impossible if you're the sole caregiver".
Of course if you are the only person home, you can't expect a 4 year old to let you work uninterrupted for long stretches of time. I don't see anyone trying to argue that point of view though (certainly I would never say that).
It’s that as a parent it’s hard not to just have some part of your brain constantly scanning for any sign of your 4 year old trying to get themselves hurt or break something (as 4 year olds naturally do).
In other words, the boundary crossing is done by the adult and is really hard to turn off if you have any interest in your kid staying safe, fed, and entertained throughout the day.
I’m not good at this, I certainly don’t think I have the answer, that’s just the current thinking in our context.
I know, I'm doing it wrong, but my position wasn't remote before the start of the pandemic.
And be nevertheless woken up early in the morning by your toddlers ...
While I'm working, preferably alone, ear buds are in and a long instrumental track is played on loop, so that noise is drowned out, don't get distracted by having to select another song, and there's no need for my brain to process speech. It's amazing how well it works in keeping me focused.
As of late, been playing Autechre's "Bike"
I have no idea what that meant then, nor do I now. I found the new larger space with ~5 people scattered around absolutely heavenly to work in.
In the end it's about being able to control your environment to some degree. That's what open offices and cube farms have taken away.
Being able to control room temprature is also very helpful.
Maybe as you are saying the presence of fellow tribe, but in this case I know they won't come to talk because we all have the seat belt, and when the is allowed to take it off, it's the social norm to minimise interactions due to the reduced space, people usually keep the norm to enable the corridor just for the staff and trips to the bathroom.
But additionally:
- Being offline, also makes you feel certain no one will interrupt you electronically.
- No one would expect you to get anything done in airplane, and that can feel like a liberation, meaning you can catch up and the time feels "free".
- Timing is programmed, start and end and the food breaks in between are scheduled and announced.
- And the noise inside the cabin combined with noise cancelling headphones, I don't know why, it helps.
I can confirm that is false.
If it were an actual instinct, I would possess it as would essentially all people. I do not possess that instinct what-so-ever.
I do not gain an increased feeling of safety from the chatter and hub-bub of relaxed tribemates puttering nearby.
That context annoys me, rather than increasing my sense of comfort.
There are multiple types of primary human personalities, not one. I'm a non-tribalist personality type. That means tribes don't tend to like me and I don't tend to like tribes. The tribe and I are not friends, we're closer to suspicious enemies. I disagree with tribal order. By default my personality rebels against tribal structures and most systems like that. I don't do well following others that attempt to command me (tribal systems always have some manner of hierarchy). I operate at a vastly higher degree of effectiveness without lots of other people around. I'm happier and more productive on my own or in small teams.
This isn't a personality I developed over time through great effort. It has been that way at least as far back as 4-6 years of age. I've also spent my life from 15-40 years of age as an entrepreneur. I can be a decent employee, however I dislike it.
I'm a disagreeable personality (to others), as such I'm poorly suited to government, consensus structures, tribal systems, politics and the like. I also don't enjoy asking permission first and I never seek approval from others, I very rarely get a personal sense of reward from the approval of others. That said, the people I do like, I like immensely; and I'm kind toward others who are kind toward me, I believe manners are important, politeness/kindness are important. I used to refer to myself as a lone wolf personality type, as opposed to a tribalist personality type; however that phrase has a particularly negative connotation these days.
I seek to pile up a lot of money to get away from most aspects of society (in a comfortable manner), rather than to sit on top of society or eg receive prestige from a prominent place in society.
Then they aren't "chatter and hub-bub of relaxed tribemates", rather to you it is "the whispers and noises of your enemies". Of course that wont get you relaxed. The effect comes from hearing people you are comfortable around talking, if you have a distrustful personality then likely you aren't comfortable around many people but the effect is still there, just that you lack another link.
I agree with gp.
The existence of variation does not disprove the existence of trends.
I don't think it's necessarily valid to expect that all peoples have evolved the same set of instincts. Particularly given adaptation to vastly different environments over the last 200k or so years after leaving africa. This particular instinct would not likely be a prerequisite for survival and may not have occured even among all members of a given tribe.
Technology (especially medical) and civilization are forces that act against evolution; to the extent that they probably seek to stop human evolution.
I suspect that I would have operated on the edge of civilizations many thousands of years ago. I would be more likely to do fringe things, and trade. I've always enjoyed trading, the economic action of it, although I dislike traditional sales. Roaming trader or hunter would be most likely rather than shop owner in a bazaar. The roaming would be ideal for multiple reasons. I also prefer to be awake during the night and always have; I can easily sleep during daylight hours and without a darkened space.
Haven't graduated to having one in my office, but maybe I should give that a whirl. Though one thing the shower & hot tub still have is temperature comfort. Warm and relaxing might be as important as the noise.
> Recently, we demonstrated that aircraft noise exposure during nighttime can induce endothelial dysfunction in healthy subjects and is even more pronounced in coronary artery disease patients.
Obviously, no one enjoys being woken up at night by passing airplanes.
"Tiger loose in Houston for a week finally captured":
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/crime/tiger-loose-in-houston-...
"Tiger loose in Houston for a week finally captured":
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/crime/tiger-loose-in-houston-...
Before WFH become the norm in early 2020, there were days when I made no progress at all until everyone else had gone home. The precious hour between 5pm and 6pm -- when the cleaners came and talked to me and broke my concentration again -- was sometimes more productive than the entire day that led up to it.
What also helps, working alone, is the ability to talk out loud to yourself. For me, it's a superpower. I dread losing it if Management decides to pull us all back into the office when the pandemic is over. (Or, even worse, continually talking to myself without realising it. :-))
One thing this pandemic will be remembered for is how it permanently changed the way desk jobs are done. If "Management" decides to pull you back into office, there are many more "Managements" who are waiting to hire you by giving you the option to remain remote.
I work best when it's "completely silent". By that I don't mean actually completely silent but I certainly don't want radio or any other kinds of chatter. I also can't stand noise from ventilation, such as the AC. I do know that a lot of people even buy "white noise machines" e.g. for sleeping. I can't understand why people would voluntarily import that kind of noise. I actively try to get rid of it as much as I can, such as turning the AC way up ahead of going to bed and shutting it off for going to sleep.
All that to say that we're all very different. He doesn't state absolute truths.
Imagine sitting in a noisy cafe but still working on your paper because you don’t know anyone and don’t have the context of any discussion.
There are also phases of not having that interaction and I might be checking how a particular piece of code works right now e.g. while triaging a bug that came in or I might be creating or reviewing a document, such as a flow chart, architectural diagram etc. Or coding something of various different degrees of difficulty.
During none of these would I want any radio (or other kind of) noise. Not even the deep thinking and not interacting with people phases. I am also introverted so I like these phases. They recharge me.
At some point the kids come home and I'll have noise again and by that time I want to be finished with work.
incidentally that’s also why we should all buy something every hour or two, and buying to-go is basically overpaying (which is fine, especially if you want to support your locally-owned coffee joint).
edit: i should add that i’ve preferred working from a cafe over home (or the library, or even a quiet office) since i started the habit in college. similar to the root comment, it’s because there’s enough familiar noise, but not too many familiar people (but greater than zero people).
https://noiz.io was a lifesaver during quar’. virtual coffeeshop, artificial rain storms, even an ST:TNG-style outer space hum
I have pink noise playing pretty much all the time at home. Not only does it mask some intermittent ambient noise, it's also too quiet without it. (Edit: I use sox in the terminal for this. Install sox then play -n synth pinknoise.)
Just noticed the same person made https://noises.online/ too, which is like a simplified, browser-only version of myNoise ... and you can share mixes like https://noises.online/player.php?g=ca3fa3ib3
Maybe I don't care for tribemates?
Having the ambient noise and not feeling alone and vulnerable but also feeling safe and amongst people is like the perfect set up for deep concentration for me.
The conclusion I came to is that humans have a few emotional needs in order to reach deep focus:
1. We need to not be distracted and we need to feel certainty that we will not be distracted. Before we are comfortable untaking the work to architect a giant mental castle, we need to feel confident that someone won't come around to kick it down.
2. At a more primitive, simian level, we need to feel that we're in a safe environment. It's hard to focus on code if you're worried that a tree is going to fall on you or a lion will drag you off into the jungle.
When it comes to sound, those can be opposing. Because we are a social species, I think one of the things that makes us feel most secure is the ambient present of a fellow tribe. To our early ancestors, dead silence meant you were alone, and being alone in the wilderness was often a death sentence. We instinctively feel safest when we hear the chatter and hub-bub of relaxed tribemates puttering around nearby. We know we're not alone, that there are others will also be alerted if something happens, and that they also feel safe.
But the presence of fellow people can also mean that at any moment one of them might wander over and start talking to us. So hearing that ambient chatter can make it really hard to focus.
This is, I think, part of why working in a coffeeshop can be so effective. You get the sense of safety in numbers, but since they are all strangers and at least in the US the social norms go against talking to strangers, you know the odds are slim that you'll actually be interrupted.