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Re:Reasons to switch from Windows to Linux by pjmlp on Friday October 22, 2021 @10:22AM (#28957538)
Yet another one of thoses guides.

When XP came out everyone was going to go GNU/Linux, due to Toy'R us interface.

When Vista came out everyone was going to go GNU/Linux, due to DX 10 drivers and hardware requirements.

When 8.x came out everyone was going to go GNU/Linux, due to tablet UI.

When 10 came out everyone was going to go GNU/Linux, due to telemetry.

Now Windows 11 came out, naturally everyone is going to go GNU/Linux yet again.

Re:Reasons to switch from Windows to Linux by Zhyl on Friday October 22, 2021 @11:38AM (#28958544)
It's worth noting that desktop Linux has improved remarkably in the last 5 years.

I know that this is always said, but compared to, say, 2012 when Windows 8 was announced we have:

* Youtube, Netflix and other services that Windows 7 users would have taken for granted that weren't available by default on Linux

* Stable drivers for infamous Wifi problems

* Thousands of games working since Proton was released in 2018 [0]

* Anti-cheat support announced by EAC and Battleye earlier this year [1]

* Easier install processes

I think the knee-jerk HN backlash against Linux in comments like these is getting less and less justified. There's certainly still reasons that you could be flippant and sarcastic about Linux. It still is at only 1-3% of the marketshare after all, but I don't think you can compare it to previous versions of Windows in the same way anymore.

[0] https://protondb.com

[1] https://techraptor.net/gaming/news/valve-making-linux-anti-c...

Re:Reasons to switch from Windows to Linux by phendrenad2 on Sunday October 24, 2021 @07:16PM (#28982819)
What if I don't care about games?
Re:Reasons to switch from Windows to Linux by iso1210 on Friday October 22, 2021 @10:25AM (#28957602)
I went to linux around the time ME was on the shelf, not sure why I'd want to move to windows, I want something that just works.
Re:Reasons to switch from Windows to Linux by xtracto on Friday October 22, 2021 @11:48AM (#28958679)
I also want something hat just works! When I boot Windows, my 2 plugged monitors work seamlessly. When I boot Linux... it's complicated [1] (pragmatically it doesn't work because I am using Nvidia drivers, and won't use the shitty Nouveau drivers. And even if you use them , good luck tinkering for hours with text config files and whatnot)

Linux mint 20 is my main OS in my self-built PC ( and works for me pretty well (for development, browsing and gaming via Proton). But I wouldn't try to convince ANY non-technical user to get into Linux. Because installing it is half the battle, once they start doing "their stuff" (plug a second monitor, plug some device, open some file, etc) there's good chance that it won't work.

[1] https://askubuntu.com/questions/593938/how-to-run-both-intel...

Re:Reasons to switch from Windows to Linux by iso1210 on Sunday October 24, 2021 @05:28AM (#28976236)
Your experience is clearly different to mine, I have 1 monitors on my desktop which work fine, I also have a separate fitlet PC for monitoring purposes with a hdmi monitor and a separate touchscreen USB one.

Both just work, with the only configuration I had to do was to swap them round (left/right) is display settings.

Maybe windows has caught up with this now, last time I used windows I had to install "drivers", which seemed to be advertising programs which took up most of my CPU, to use basic peripherals.

Re:Reasons to switch from Windows to Linux by xtracto on Tuesday October 26, 2021 @11:12AM (#29001377)
> Maybe windows has caught up with this now, last time I used windows I had to install "drivers", which seemed to be advertising programs which took up most of my CPU, to use basic peripherals.

This comment kind of decreases the your argument. If you are using Linux you know what a device driver is. This naïve take on drivers just doesn't fly. I couldn't ware less about windows, but the last time I used it (I think Windows 7) I didn't have to install any additional driver.

And on Linux you also have to install "drivers" either closed source (nvidia) or open source (nouveau) to make use of 3d acceleration. So, if you don't know what these "drivers" are, I suggest you read on them and how to install them in your preferred Linux distro, as it can strongly improve your Linux experience if you happen to have a discrete graphics chip in your computer.

Re:Reasons to switch from Windows to Linux by vetinari on Friday October 22, 2021 @01:58PM (#28960405)
While I can imagine that making Nvidia cooperate with another GPU is difficult under Linux, it is not just "plug a second monitor".

It is running two GPUs, one of them Nvidia. That's an entirely different league, than plugging a second monitor into a Linux system.

Re:Reasons to switch from Windows to Linux by metalliqaz on Friday October 22, 2021 @10:29AM (#28957663)
Funny, that's why I still use Windows on my desktop.
Re:Reasons to switch from Windows to Linux by blakebreeder on Friday October 22, 2021 @11:53AM (#28958742)
Yeah, I don't feel that way at all about Linux and I daily drive it. Could you imagine our mothers troubleshooting any of the following things that have regularly happened to me on Linux in the last 5 years I've been daily driving it:

* Hm, my sound stopped working. * Hm, dhcp stopped working. * X has completely failed to start. * This website just straight up doesn't load. * Thia game won't load (pretend it's solitaire). * This update broke my boot. * Seemingly doing nothing broke my boot. * This update broke my browser. * This application does not work without configuration. * My monitor layout is broken.

Maybe things are better in Ubuntu land, but I doubt it's as seamless as Windows/Mac.

Re:Reasons to switch from Windows to Linux by goohle on Friday October 22, 2021 @12:13PM (#28959018)
My mom uses Fedora Linux for more than 15 years. She never saw any of that. I perform upgrades when necessary.
Re:Reasons to switch from Windows to Linux by vetinari on Friday October 22, 2021 @01:54PM (#28960346)
Similarly, my parents are on Ubuntu LTS since 6.06 (not on the same computer, obviously), when I got tired with regular windows reinstallations. There have been exactly two problems:

- "internet doesn't work" -> yanked ethernet cable. Later I made sure it cannot be easily yanked.

- "printer doesn't print" -> classic inkjet problem with dried ink. Inkjet replaced with b/w laser. no problems since.

Re:Reasons to switch from Windows to Linux by vetinari on Friday October 22, 2021 @10:44AM (#28957876)
To add to the funny story, I have Ryzen 1900X on my desk (literally, the cpu in a small plastic box). Nowadays, those 8 Zen cores clocked at 3.8 GHz are not enough to run Windows, apparently.
Re:Reasons to switch from Windows to Linux by chirau on Friday October 22, 2021 @11:12AM (#28958250)
This is obviously not true. Which Windows can't you run on that?
Re:Reasons to switch from Windows to Linux by metalliqaz on Friday October 22, 2021 @11:23AM (#28958381)
He's talking about the Windows 11 hardware requirements, which are very strict and only support the newest CPUs.

However Windows 11 can be installed on the same hardware that runs Windows 10, it just won't allow you to upgrade. Otherwise it runs fine.

Microsoft is basically turning Windows into what mobile OS's are: tightly controlled and requiring specific hardware to ensure a particular set of user expectations with their devices. In other words, it's becoming a laptop OS.

Re:Reasons to switch from Windows to Linux by vetinari on Friday October 22, 2021 @12:12PM (#28959000)
> However Windows 11 can be installed on the same hardware that runs Windows 10, it just won't allow you to upgrade.

It was not possible to either run the update assistant or boot from install media and install from there; both means said that the machine doesn't meet minimum requirements.

They didn't even say which ones, just shown a generic link. Only the Health Check running under W10 said that it is the CPU.

Re:Reasons to switch from Windows to Linux by zdragnar on Friday October 22, 2021 @11:22AM (#28958371)
Does it meet 11's hardware requirements? I thought I had heard older Ryzens wouldn't- not from performance, but other chip features.
Re:Reasons to switch from Windows to Linux by vetinari on Friday October 22, 2021 @12:14PM (#28959033)
Yeah, who should I believe, you, a random stranger on the Internet, or my lying eyes? /s

It is Windows 11 that doesn't run on it.

Re:Reasons to switch from Windows to Linux by wayneftw on Friday October 22, 2021 @10:39AM (#28957786)
Yet another one of these comments.

When XP came out, people were switching to Linux.

When Vista came out, people were switching to Linux.

When 8.x came out, people were switching to Linux.

When 10 came out, people were switching to Linux.

Now Windows 11 came out, naturally people are still switching to Linux.

Guess what? People are going to continue switching platforms and talking about it.

Oh and 25% of developers are generally running Linux, 25-30% are on a Mac and about 40-45% are on Windows...and Windows usage is trending downwards year after year. [0]

[0] https://insights.stackoverflow.com/survey/2021#section-most-...

Re:Reasons to switch from Windows to Linux by pjmlp on Friday October 22, 2021 @11:25AM (#28958417)
Still good enough to power about 85% of desktop computers worldwide, one games console and game streaming service, all of which also need developers.
Re:Reasons to switch from Windows to Linux by makeitdouble on Friday October 22, 2021 @11:40AM (#28958571)
Re:Reasons to switch from Windows to Linux by pjmlp on Saturday October 23, 2021 @03:44AM (#28966505)
With Linux topping 2.3, what an achievement in 20 years, since XP was released (ChromeOS doesn't count it is a browser).
Re:Reasons to switch from Windows to Linux by makeitdouble on Saturday October 23, 2021 @09:09AM (#28968036)
ChromeOS is a lot more than a glorified browser these days. Android apps are a big part of the experience, and the linux subsystem is one toggle away to runs alongside.

The only real show stoppers left are the usually wimpy hardware it comes with and the lack of polish, but otherwise it has come a long way. I would completely consider switching to it instead of linux if I had a Dell laptop for instance.

Re:Reasons to switch from Windows to Linux by wayneftw on Friday October 22, 2021 @11:51AM (#28958723)
Oh, gee well I thought we were on a developer/techie forum.

McDonald's is also one of the most popular restaurants. I eat there once in a while. I still run Windows boxes to play games too.

And it's more like ~30% for Windows when you measure against all operating systems, not just the desktop ones. [0] Android is the top dog since at least October 2020 when it went to over ~40%.

[0] https://gs.statcounter.com/os-market-share

Re:Reasons to switch from Windows to Linux by pjmlp on Friday October 22, 2021 @01:01PM (#28959688)
Android runs ART + C and C++ NDK APIs, the fact that there is a Linux kernel underneath matters zero to app developers.
Re:Reasons to switch from Windows to Linux by wayneftw on Friday October 22, 2021 @02:36PM (#28960847)
Of course. But the fact that I was pointing out was that the Windows percentage is actually quite small in the grand scheme of things.
Re:Reasons to switch from Windows to Linux by danShumway on Friday October 22, 2021 @02:48PM (#28961018)
I don't understand what you're getting at. When you develop for Xbox, do you connect a keyboard to your Xbox and launch Visual Studio directly on the console?

What do the Xbox or XCloud have to do with developer marketshare? They're targets, not development platforms. Are you arguing that the Stackoverflow stats are wrong?

Re:Reasons to switch from Windows to Linux by pjmlp on Saturday October 23, 2021 @03:46AM (#28966513)
Actually you can do that with a DevKit, yes.

Stackoverflow stats reflect the vocal audience that bothers answering their surveys.

That is the problem with statistics, when there is a chicken and two people, each has eaten half.

Re:Reasons to switch from Windows to Linux by danShumway on Saturday October 23, 2021 @10:06PM (#28974271)
> Actually you can do that with a DevKit, yes.

I mean, with sideloading on an Xbox technically sure, you can do anything. But to be clear, your average developers are not doing development on Xboxes directly, they're using Unity/Unreal and treating their Xbox as a compile target. And certainly they're not doing remote development on XCloud, that would be a wildly inefficient way to write software when instead you could just develop locally on any machine.

> Stackoverflow stats reflect the vocal audience that bothers answering their surveys.

Do you really genuinely think that Stackoverflow's blog is so unrepresentative that it's undercounting significant numbers of developers that are installing Visual Studio on an XBox?

I still just don't understand what conclusion you're trying to draw. Am I just misunderstanding what you're saying, or are you really arguing that these are development platforms that people are commonly using as their daily driver to write software? Because... they're not. There's not a hidden uncounted majority of people who bought Xboxes because they love the experience of hooking them up to their computer peripherals and using them as their software development platform.

Re:Reasons to switch from Windows to Linux by codeflo on Friday October 22, 2021 @10:30AM (#28957682)
OTOH, 11 is the first version of Windows where Microsoft actively tells a large portion of their userbase that they don’t want them to run it. I’m not a believer in “the year of the Linux desktop” either, but those insane policies around fictitious hardware requirements surely must have some impact on market share?
Re:Reasons to switch from Windows to Linux by signal11 on Friday October 22, 2021 @10:48AM (#28957921)
> I’m not a believer in “the year of the Linux desktop” either, but those insane policies around fictitious hardware requirements surely must have some impact on market share?

I will give them (some) benefit of the doubt -- they probably are using Windows 11's more stringent hardware requirements as an instrument to drive increased security in the PC space. New PCs will want to be advertised as Windows 11 compatible, and will benefit from the newer features. Every type of Windows user will benefit. And yes, if it gets them more money, so much the better.

But Windows 10's retirement date is October 14, 2025[1] and I don't think that's sustainable. They'll almost have to extend that date.

Because otherwise, four years from now, there's a lot of devices that'll be out of support, on an OS that Microsoft sold as "the last version of Windows ever". There'll be lawsuits if that happens, mark my words.

Of course I suspect Microsoft is hoping most Windows 11-ineligible machines will have been retired by then, but we know people (public sector, developing countries, lower income groups) hang on to their PCs. More realistically, they'll either extend Windows 10's support date like they did with XP, or lower the system requirements based on user feedback. More likely extend the support date, because honestly, the cost of supporting 10 vs 11 is minimal, it's not that big of an update.

I'd definitely encourage people to put Linux on an old laptop though. For instance I know people who've put Linux on old Thinkpad X230s and given it to their children, who basically use them like a more-capable Chromebook. On the right hardware, Linux laptops are pretty darn good. But yes, if you have a weird hardware configuration which Linux isn't good with, and you have no time for mucking around -- do yourself a favour and stay away from Linux.

[1] https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/lifecycle/products/windows-...

Re:Reasons to switch from Windows to Linux by streamofdigits on Friday October 22, 2021 @12:28PM (#28959219)
> public sector, developing countries, lower income groups

there are also people who think that the incessant production of e-waste through planned obsolescence is obscene and a crime against nature (and eventually ourselves). devices should be reparable, long-lived, upgradeable by design. and don't get me started on privacy and the grave risks from normalizing the ubiquitous collection of data.

no need to mention names but you can perfectly well be a "tech titan" and a moral dwarf. each tech company (and each one of their employees) must assume their responsibility for what kind of world they are (literally) engineering

Re:Reasons to switch from Windows to Linux by pjmlp on Saturday October 23, 2021 @03:39AM (#28966484)
Developing countries, lower income groups are more likely to use pirated copies of Windows bought on a street bazaar than bothering with Linux.
Re:Reasons to switch from Windows to Linux by hulitu on Friday October 22, 2021 @11:25AM (#28958410)
Security, with rootkits signed by microsoft.
Re:Reasons to switch from Windows to Linux by justupvoting on Friday October 22, 2021 @10:28AM (#28957655)
The ever coming year of the linux desktop.

Full disclosure: I dual boot, but only to game. Linux been my daily driver since before 7 went eol. I am that linux fanboy. Debian, primarily.

Re:Reasons to switch from Windows to Linux by marcianx on Friday October 22, 2021 @10:50AM (#28957965)
Linux desktop already came for me personally a long while back. I've been single-booting Linux and gaming for an incredibly long time.

CodeWeavers[1] has done amazingly for the Linux gaming scene via

- Steam's Proton (Steam pays CodeWeavers for development, and I happily throw my money at Valve for that) and

- their own CrossOver product which I use for non-Stream games. (I paid for their lifetime subscription[2] because I wanted to support them so much.)

Stream's Proton works well for many games that don't officially support it (one can check others' reports in protodb). Examples of games I've played recently that don't officially support Proton include Iron Danger and Horizon Zero Dawn. The latter runs surprisingly smoothly given what I'd heard about its PC performance issues from when it first came out. Granted, I'm playing both of these 1 year after their PC release, but I've already got a long Steam backlog of games to play, so that's not bothered me.

For reference, I run PopOS on a System76 Thelio with an 8-core AMD processor and Radeon RX 580.

[1]: https://www.codeweavers.com/

[2]: https://www.codeweavers.com/store

Re:Reasons to switch from Windows to Linux by tim333 on Friday October 22, 2021 @10:52AM (#28958001)
Apparently chromebooks have broken 10% of sales, which are sort of Linuxey. https://www.geekwire.com/2021/chromebooks-outsold-macs-world...
Re:Reasons to switch from Windows to Linux by zdragnar on Friday October 22, 2021 @11:25AM (#28958413)
I got my wife, who is not tech literate, a chromebook and it is all she uses. There's enough web software that she wouldnt need and doesnt want anything bigger.

It is hardly a traditional linux given how locked down it it is out of the box, but so what? She'll never use 99% of the features that windows or macOS come with.

Re:Reasons to switch from Windows to Linux by bamboozled on Friday October 22, 2021 @10:51AM (#28957981)
I run Linux desktop with no issue, been doing it for years. The year of the Linux desktop has been here for a while, you just haven’t looked.
Re:Reasons to switch from Windows to Linux by EastOfTruth on Friday October 22, 2021 @10:27AM (#28957640)
Why is Windows 11 the only one that you don't give a reason?

Vista was just complete shit BTW... I skipped over it to Windows 7. Switched completely to Linux after that.

Re:Reasons to switch from Windows to Linux by rbanffy on Friday October 22, 2021 @10:31AM (#28957689)
It still too soon to know what problems and pains will Windows 11 cause.
Re:Reasons to switch from Windows to Linux by weirdsquid on Friday October 22, 2021 @10:42AM (#28957842)
Personally, I don't like 11 because of telemetry as well as missing features, particularly with its new desktop shell. I can't see how removing useful taskbar features (resizing, changing position, ungrouping window buttons, etc) and turning the start menu into an abomination with less functionality then my phone's damn app drawer is an upgrade. To top it off Microsoft still just can't seem to resist the temptation and decided to include "sponsored" applications in the Start menu pinned section on a fresh install. An average user doesn't know they're not really installed, but it looks like it. When you click on them it installs the application without consent similar to how they did it in Windows 10. They never learn...
Re:Reasons to switch from Windows to Linux by dustymcp on Friday October 22, 2021 @10:52AM (#28957983)
I worked retail in xp/vista days the regular customers had no idea about linux existing, few knew about MacOS it has changed but no way these people would ever touch linux, laptops needs to come with it even then it would be a hard Sell..
Re:Reasons to switch from Windows to Linux by ekianjo on Friday October 22, 2021 @11:33AM (#28958502)
I agree with the sentiment, but... reasons to use Linux do pile up over time, and Linux desktop is getting a bit better every year too. I don't expect any kind of mainstream adoption, but there's a momentum.
Re:Reasons to switch from Windows to Linux by ethanpil on Friday October 22, 2021 @11:02AM (#28958112)
... when Windows 12 comes out it will be half GNU/Linux
Re:Reasons to switch from Windows to Linux by pjmlp on Saturday October 23, 2021 @03:43AM (#28966503)
Might be, but that will be because Microsoft wants it, with their own set of rules, just like Google, not because the community managed to achieve anything.

And just like Android and ChromeOS, don't expect Windows 12/Linux apps to be available on GNU/Linux distributions.

Re:Reasons to switch from Windows to Linux by progforlyfe on Friday October 22, 2021 @11:02AM (#28958120)
And indeed these are points when many switch or at least try to, which is good. And some of those stick for good, some go back.
Re:Reasons to switch from Windows to Linux by ginko on Friday October 22, 2021 @10:43AM (#28957862)
The first 10 reasons don't matter, really. Windows is proprietary software and should be avoided on ethical grounds just for that.
Re:Reasons to switch from Windows to Linux by dustymcp on Friday October 22, 2021 @12:39PM (#28959383)
So software cant be monetized how do you make a living?
Re:Reasons to switch from Windows to Linux by ginko on Friday October 22, 2021 @03:05PM (#28961250)
You can get paid for producing open source software you know..

It’s actually kind of shocking that people don’t know this these days. Have corporations really undermined free software so much?