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Re:The Reemergence of Style in Software by ChrisMarshallNY on Saturday October 16, 2021 @08:15AM (#28887319)
> Modern software’s humdrum lack of identity has resulted in users craving more interesting, opinionated tools, tools that feel like us — or a better, more interesting, wackier version of us.

The above is the kind of sentence that you'll see in almost any fashion or arts magazine.

Pretty fluffy stuff. Not really the kind of thing we're used to, in the engineering community.

That said, I firmly believe that there's always a place for good graphic and interaction design, in technology.

I don't feel that it's a problem. Some companies will stick to "the classics," while some will go overboard with the "chrome"[0], so to speak.

[0] https://www.mprove.de/script/99/kai/2Software.html

Re:The Reemergence of Style in Software by andybak on Saturday October 16, 2021 @09:07AM (#28887601)
So I read the first sentence and my immediate reaction was "Well I don't. And I'm not sure anyone has ever expressed that opinion to me" and I stopped reading.
Re:The Reemergence of Style in Software by coldtea on Saturday October 16, 2021 @12:29PM (#28888988)
Well, here's that opinion: today's flat UIs all look the same, boring, and bland. I wish there was more quirkiness too. Perhaps not to Kai Power tool's levels, but I enjoy the functional quirkiness of many VST UIs.

Now you can continue reading. Seldom anybody learned much, when they stopped reading at the point they disagreed with.

Re:The Reemergence of Style in Software by andybak on Saturday October 16, 2021 @02:39PM (#28890264)
I want my UI’s to be usable. I want it to be immediately obvious what I need to do. I want them to become invisible in the same way good tools do. I don’t want my hammer to be quirky, I want it to be an extension of my hand.

EDIT - Yeah. I have a certain fondness for Kai’s. But I had time to get used to them. It’s one UI in a thousand where I have time to get bedded in with it’s quirks. For all the rest - be boring.

Re:The Reemergence of Style in Software by Randosaurus on Saturday October 16, 2021 @07:35PM (#28892573)
The flat UI's you're complaining about are an example of the form over function philosophy.
Re:The Reemergence of Style in Software by coldtea on Tuesday October 19, 2021 @08:16AM (#28917251)
The opposite could be argued as well: it's design supposed to focus on function alone (after all that was their pitch: put the content front and center, remove aesthetic touches from the "skeuomorphic" UIs, etc.) but with no redeeming aesthetic qualities (which are also important for actual human users).

So, it's not exactly form over function (besides thought into form is necessary for function - you can have a real world lever that is e.g. thin and crooked and it will still function as a lever, but a good lever also has good form -- e.g. be designed to have a good grip).

It's "design ideology and novelty for some manager's sake" over form and function.

Re:The Reemergence of Style in Software by agumonkey on Saturday October 16, 2021 @12:17PM (#28888896)
There's a bit of truth. The era of extremely engineered everything gave birth to flat design for instance. I'm not pro skeumorphism but I remember how odd software felt good in a way. As long as it was fun (good boards, useful programs) you ended up liking the quirks.
Re:The Reemergence of Style in Software by andybak on Saturday October 16, 2021 @02:38PM (#28890253)
I don’t disagree but I didn’t get any of that from that opening statement. It seems to be arguing for diversity in UI which I happen to think is usually a terrible idea.
Re:The Reemergence of Style in Software by ChrisMarshallNY on Saturday October 16, 2021 @05:03PM (#28891486)
> It seems to be arguing for diversity in UI which I happen to think is usually a terrible idea.

I have to agree with this sentiment. I loved KPT, but that was more for the "adventure" aspect. I actually had difficulty using a lot of functions (don't ask me to remember which ones).

It's frustrating, designing innovative UI that also follows convention. It's a joy, when it works.

I have this iOS widget that I wrote[0]. It's really, really cool. Works a charm, and is easy to implement.

But I keep on not using it in my projects. It's too "in your face." I think that UI needs to get the hell out of the way, and just let the user do what they want to do.

I have a couple of more, more conventional widgets, that I use all the time[1], [2].

KPT was "in your face," like no other UI I have ever experienced.

[0] https://riftvalleysoftware.com/work/open-source-projects/#RV...

[1] https://riftvalleysoftware.com/work/open-source-projects/#RV...

[2] https://riftvalleysoftware.com/work/open-source-projects/#RV...

Re:The Reemergence of Style in Software by prox on Saturday October 16, 2021 @09:47AM (#28887845)
I am going to make a claim as someone who works in both the crossroad of devwork and design that there is not one piece of software that caters truly for the artist.

Every piece of software for artists / designers is not intuitive. It’s sliders, knobs, modals and panels. Programmers making design software is Not A Good Idea.

The way forward is something like ProCreate, so just the software and the pen, and maybe more auxiliary devices (a color palet for instance) to become more analog again.

Re:The Reemergence of Style in Software by megameter on Sunday October 17, 2021 @08:05AM (#28895860)
No advanced art process can avoid some amount of engineering, because the demand that is made is to measure and select with precision that which is to be edited.

When we use a mark-making tool like a pen, all that's happening is that we select the area being pressed to be darkened. Technique with those tools takes years to develop, and their full use comes in tandem with additional tools like rulers, prospekt, and stencils.

So when we add knobs and sliders and modes we are simply trying to describe those kinds of intents within a precise abstraction instead of a collection of simpler tools. It does go overboard in that nobody's going to adjust every knob presented.

Re:The Reemergence of Style in Software by pjc50 on Saturday October 16, 2021 @10:47AM (#28888220)
It's been a long time since the unique and slightly bizarre Kai's Power Tools: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kai%27s_Power_Tools
Re:The Reemergence of Style in Software by prox on Saturday October 16, 2021 @04:43PM (#28891325)
Yeah, and in many ways, we haven’t seen many more trials like that.
Re:The Reemergence of Style in Software by jimmaswell on Saturday October 16, 2021 @01:09PM (#28889356)
What do you want, an AI that reads your mind and generates the exact art you want? Barring that, a perfectly intuitive tool is impossible past a certain point of complexity. If you want something in front of something else you're going to have to learn what a layer is. If you want something at just the right transparency you're going to have to adjust the transparency.

Maybe some kind of virtual art studio in VR would be helpful for people who want a more physically intuitive experience with some extras like undo and saving copies, but even then you're still going to have to learn a thing or two about the tool to use it, like any tool.

Re:The Reemergence of Style in Software by ksec on Saturday October 16, 2021 @01:22PM (#28889499)
>The way forward is something like ProCreate

You mean [1] ? I dont disagree with your point but I dont understand how pro create is any different to any other design software on iPad.

[1] https://procreate.art

Re:The Reemergence of Style in Software by ChrisMarshallNY on Saturday October 16, 2021 @02:13PM (#28890012)
ProCreate works very well with the Apple Pencil.

The Apple Pencil, and the iPad Pro (esp. the latest of each), is awesome. They did a really good job on that.

I don't use ProCreate, but that's mostly because I'm not really that kind of graphic designer.

I remember looking at "paintbox" tools for video effects, in the 1970s. We've come a long, long way, and real artists have some really nice tools at their disposal.

Re:The Reemergence of Style in Software by ksec on Saturday October 16, 2021 @02:21PM (#28890095)
So it is Apple Pencil that is making the difference, Not Pro Create?

Because parent mention Apps were the problem? Or is it more like Apps designed for Apple Pencil will be the future? Not mouse and keyboard?

Re:The Reemergence of Style in Software by prox on Saturday October 16, 2021 @04:46PM (#28891342)
It’s the intuitive way you can draw without endlessly dialing knobs, tweak panels and so on. It’s fluent, which I feel, a lot of apps lack. I love to see more UI / UX creativity.
Re:The Reemergence of Style in Software by theaussiestew on Saturday October 16, 2021 @06:44PM (#28892244)
I’m very curious about what you mean specifically around UI/UX creativity. I do agree with you though, which is why I’ve been trying to build an app that has more “creative” and non traditional UX elements.

I also feel that an ‘Ink-Board’ should replace the trackpad as we know it. Basically an E-Ink tablet that serves as a stylus, pointer and control input. So that we’re not limited to discrete inputs (as opposed to analogue inputs).

Re:The Reemergence of Style in Software by prox on Sunday October 17, 2021 @09:42AM (#28896376)
Sorry for a late feedback as I do interest myself in this topic. If you look at Photoshop or Affinity, they all work the same way. The present an icon to manipulate the image, they have the same panels.

And you can ofcourse create beautiful works of art with it. But in terms of usage, it’s all the same.

Now if you are lucky you got yourself a Cintiq or maybe Surface Studio edition, giving you a hands on experience.

When it comes interfacing though, I feel we haven’t really explored much. Someone here mentioned KAI power tools, which was quite intuitive and fun to use.

I just wish for more types of computing/interfacing and use of screen and see some creativity in this field.

An Ink-board does sounds interesting though!

Re:The Reemergence of Style in Software by theaussiestew on Friday October 22, 2021 @06:14PM (#28963434)
Yeah I see what you mean. All the panels are largely the same, to do with configurable numeric inputs. I think this is a interesting space to explore, there are so many possible alternatives.
Re:The Reemergence of Style in Software by Akronymus on Saturday October 16, 2021 @01:48PM (#28889779)
> That said, I firmly believe that there's always a place for good graphic and interaction design, in technology.

Form should come after function. But often times form actually contributes to function. (In the sense of making the "right" thing intuitive to do)

Function is IMO always paramount.

Re:The Reemergence of Style in Software by ChrisMarshallNY on Saturday October 16, 2021 @02:14PM (#28890025)
I've found the process to be iterative. Chicken->egg-chicken->egg... etc.