And what about the spike protein, which becomes embedded in and expressed at the cell wall? What do wayward spike proteins do inside cells? What are the full consequences of your immune system suddenly attacking your own cells? Are you potentially inducing permanent or semi permanent autoimmune conditions?

And such an autoimmune disease, if caused by the vaccine, would possibly be difficult to detect, especially on short timescales, and/or if no one is looking for them. Add in the stigma/silencing of professionals who criticize the vaccines and you're unlikely to get such research done/published, and it is a very real possibility that we just dosed hundreds of millions of people with a substance that may cause long term issues.

There's plenty of room for uncertainty here. It is irresponsible to suggest otherwise, regardless of the media's manufactured consensus.

[citation needed]

Next time you read something on the internet that sounds like something you would reasonably like to believe, please ask for a citation before you spread misinformation. The cell types that produce it and display it are exactly the same cell types that do it for every bit of foreign protein your immune system needs to protect against. There is nothing sneaky or take-over or unnatural about this process that happens all the time in your body.

Please stop.

Why do you assume that people critical of the vaccines aren't consuming scientific literature?

This source[1] cites the following from a dead link to the cdc website:

>Upon entering the cell’s cytoplasm, the mRNA redirects some of the cell’s protein production machinery (of which ribosomes are the workhorse) to begin producing viral spike proteins. The produced spike proteins are then incorporated into and “displayed” on the host cell’s outer membrane surface

If you want something meatier, here's a detailed source[2] discussing this very point, that because the spike protein is not manufactured with the rest of the virus, at least some S protein expression is expected at the cell surface from the vaccine, in contrast to a true covid infection. And this source links to multiple others on the same subject.

People seem to presume that any information which reflects negatively on the vaccines is automatically misinformation and/or argued in bad faith. Its incredibly toxic to productive discussion.

>The cell types that produce it and display it are exactly the same cell types that do it for every bit of foreign protein your immune system needs to protect against.

I'm not sure what you're implying here - that its normal for your cells to absorb foreign RNA and manufacture inflammatory proteins that are then expressed on cell walls and used to induce what is effectively an autoimmune response?

>There is nothing sneaky or take-over or unnatural about this process that happens all the time in your body.

I'm not saying anything about this is "sneaky" but injecting mRNA with the purpose of manufacturing inflammatory proteins is hardly "natural".

1. https://www.acepnow.com/article/how-the-covid-19-mrna-vaccin...

2. https://www.nature.com/articles/s41467-021-25589-1

It is perfectly fine to discuss the adverse effects of vaccines, but it is not good faith to open the discussion with a conspiratorial tone. Billions of shots have been given. That is a tremendous amount of statistical power to discern problems. There are also millions of deaths from confirmed COVID alone. It helps no one to even hint that somehow the side effects of vaccines are comparable to the real disease.

You apparently didn't understand what an APC is. APC is Antigen Presenting Cell. The entire purpose of that cell is to present bits of foreign protein to the rest of your immune system. It is full of foreign bits of protein because that is what it does. It is no more going to be hurt by presenting antigens than your neurons are hurt delivering electrical signals from sensory perceptions.

If you are going to cite literature at least understand what you're citing.

From random article [1]

> Antigen-presenting cells (APC) are cells that can process a protein antigen, break it into peptides, and present it in conjunction with class II MHC molecules on the cell surface where it may interact with appropriate T cell receptors.

APCs do not hoover up random mRNA to translate. They hoover up remnants after a carnage.

The vaccine is jabbed into the muscle, the spikes are (likely) expresses from the muscle cells, most definitely not only APC cells. Even if they were, it is not normal for APCs to be producing the proteins.

[1] https://www.sciencedirect.com/topics/veterinary-science-and-...

It is normal for your cells to manufacture bits of RNA into proteins. It's what they do all day. There is no hijacking. Cells do this constantly. And massively parallel. If each cell could only translate one rna sequence at a time you wouldn't have made it past zygote.

It's normal for Antigen Presenting Cells to present antigens on the surface of their cell membrane. It's what they do all day.

So, yes. Every bit of the process is completely natural and normal.

[citation needed]

The claims seem incorrect.

Please stop.

No. The claim is false. There is nothing close to "hijacking" going on. They are all very standard, highly parallel molecular mechanisms. I can't help that neither of you have basic understanding of biochemistry.

Does that include the engineered quasi-mRNA in the vaccine, that was specially crafted to evade certain types of degradation?

The vaccine is not and purposefully does not act like normal mRNA. It's not even made of the same 4 building blocks.

> Does that include the engineered quasi-mRNA in the vaccine, that was specially crafted to evade certain types of degradation?

Yes; that's why it has to be stored at such a cold temperature, to stave off that degradation.

The "engineered quasi-mRNA" aspect of things isn't to evade degradation, but initial immune response so it can avoid being broken down before it can express itself. https://www.science.org/content/article/mysterious-2-billion...

> Assembling mRNA using pseudouridine, a nucleoside variant that occurs naturally in the body, greatly reduced the tendency of immune sentinels called dendritic cells to shoot out inflammatory molecules in response, they reported in 2005.