Going from $110k to $24k for more skin in the game

Re:Going from $110k to $24k for more skin in the game by lonbigtech on Thursday October 07, 2021 @09:25AM (#28785909)

It wasn't clear to me while reading this that the drop occurred while at the company, or was the drop from their prior gig. If they indeed lowered the salary their company paid them... yikes. Especially if a justification is "investor signalling". Sounds like kowtowing to unhappy investors.

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Re:Going from $110k to $24k for more skin in the game by anonymouse008 on Thursday October 07, 2021 @09:28AM (#28785963)

While I agree with your sentiment and am working through this issue myself... the appeal of the entrepreneurial grind goes hand in hand with a lot of religious suffering, or specifically a Christian martyrdom.

Only very recently had a heard a parable that began to challenge the idea that to do deep good, one must materially suffer...

However, I'm no where near cured, and hearing your take definitely helps.

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Re:Going from $110k to $24k for more skin in the game by dfxm12 on Thursday October 07, 2021 @10:29AM (#28786727)

I do think the idea of redemptive suffering unfortunately permeates (at least) American society too much. If someone else wants to suffer that's OK, but I feel like it's baked into every day life too much and suffering just for suffering's sake is confused with being moral or working hard. I guess that's expected from a country founded by puritans though!

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Re:Going from $110k to $24k for more skin in the game by pirate787 on Thursday October 07, 2021 @09:46AM (#28786164)

Yeah the author seems to think going to a poverty wage will help him focus.

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Re:Going from $110k to $24k for more skin in the game by danjac on Thursday October 07, 2021 @09:58AM (#28786319)

Unless they have significant savings and/or some passive income, or they don't have family and can live with their parents or adopt a very frugal lifestyle, they will find their focus distracted by worries over everyday things like rent and bills. They are more likely to make poor short-term decisions, or have to supplement their income to do things like consulting or part-time work, to literally keep the lights on.

As an investor I'd be very concerned by this move.

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Re:Going from $110k to $24k for more skin in the game by sokoloff on Thursday October 07, 2021 @09:41AM (#28786116)

Within two inches of that was the reasoning, which included that they had two years' of runway at this level of reduced income.

That to me is the opposite of "[does] not think very far into the future."

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Re:Going from $110k to $24k for more skin in the game by gremloni on Thursday October 07, 2021 @09:49AM (#28786216)

How is two years of runway thinking far into the future?

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Re:Going from $110k to $24k for more skin in the game by sokoloff on Thursday October 07, 2021 @09:59AM (#28786333)

It's a horizon several factors longer than they would be able to make course corrections.

If you planned what lunch you would eat on January 15th, 2022, I'd also say that you were planning far into the future, even though it's only a tiny fraction of the time between now and the sun swallowing the Earth.

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Re:Going from $110k to $24k for more skin in the game by PaywallBuster on Thursday October 07, 2021 @09:53AM (#28786256)

right, the company should be self sustaining and he shouldn't be burning through his savings

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Re:Going from $110k to $24k for more skin in the game by 999900000999 on Thursday October 07, 2021 @09:29AM (#28785972)

If I was an investor I'd assume the company was doing very poorly.

He's admitting he can't make payroll. 110k isn't a ton of money.

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Re:Going from $110k to $24k for more skin in the game by giantg2 on Thursday October 07, 2021 @09:32AM (#28786000)

$110k is a ton of money to me. But I agree that doesn't look good for a company.

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Re:Going from $110k to $24k for more skin in the game by 999900000999 on Thursday October 07, 2021 @09:51AM (#28786236)

Are you a full time software engineer in the United States ?

A decent programer can make at least 100k almost anywhere in the US. I'd expect anyone running a tech company to make more than their own developers.

You don't even need to be a good developer, you can use an easier language like Python or JavaScript. Honestly 90% of success in this industry is not being a jerk and showing up on time. I've seen developers outright confront C level execs and predictably it doesn't work out so well.

The other 10% is luck. Occasionally you'll have a bad manager, or you'll join a company which doesn't manage their money well. And the only thing you can do in that case is leave.

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Re:Going from $110k to $24k for more skin in the game by giantg2 on Thursday October 07, 2021 @10:10AM (#28786472)

"Are you a full time software engineer in the United States ?"

Yes. Almost 10 years experience and an MSIS. Making under $100k.

"Honestly 90% of success in this industry is not being a jerk and showing up on time."

I must be missing that other 10%. I've had multiple bad managers, switched stacks multiple times, and other bad luck.

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Re:Going from $110k to $24k for more skin in the game by devmor on Thursday October 07, 2021 @09:34AM (#28786022)

It's a lot of money for a person, depending on where they live. But for a business it's definitely not.

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Re:Going from $110k to $24k for more skin in the game by coldtea on Thursday October 07, 2021 @09:38AM (#28786065)

Well, it's about a yearly developer salary where that founder lives - so not really "a lot of money" for them there, just the expected amount (and FAANGs do better, as do developers in New York working for finance).

Whereas his new salary is closer to a burger flipping salary, and actually less.

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Re:Going from $110k to $24k for more skin in the game by BasilPH on Thursday October 07, 2021 @12:53PM (#28788934)

We do actually make payroll and have a solid runway. What my salary cut does is: a) signal the investor and the team that I'm serious about this venture, b) increase my equity and c) increase our runway by a couple of months.

As I've noted in a top-level comment, my intended message about focus gets a bit muddled without me giving the proper context. I'll add an update to my post with some context.

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Re:Going from $110k to $24k for more skin in the game by BasilPH on Thursday October 07, 2021 @09:28AM (#28785961)

What makes you so sure that it is a poor choice? It's definitely risky, but there's also a large upside. And as I wrote, I have multiple safety nets.

> you likely do not think very far into the future

This is 1-2 year bet for me.

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Re:Going from $110k to $24k for more skin in the game by devmor on Thursday October 07, 2021 @09:33AM (#28786012)

Safety nets are for emergencies - by definition. If you are relying on them, you are having an emergency, by your own choice. Hard not to call that a poor one.

You're trying to run a company while making less than a single experienced engineer. If you even can't pay yourself that much, what exactly have you been doing with your investors' money?

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Re:Going from $110k to $24k for more skin in the game by causi on Thursday October 07, 2021 @10:01AM (#28786371)

I reduced my salary to force myself to focus on what makes the most sense strategically for the product.

You know that sentence is completely incoherent, right? The man running the company suddenly having a bunch of personal financial distractions is bad. You thinking that having less money will make you more focused is a red flag big enough to go in a car dealership parking lot.

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Re:Going from $110k to $24k for more skin in the game by tweedledee on Thursday October 07, 2021 @09:39AM (#28786084)

Once your safety net is gone you’ll be in a weakened position in further negotiations.

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Re:Going from $110k to $24k for more skin in the game by mental1896 on Thursday October 07, 2021 @09:44AM (#28786150)

Or in a great position to start over from scratch.

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Re:Going from $110k to $24k for more skin in the game by tweedledee on Thursday October 07, 2021 @09:48AM (#28786212)

Perhaps I missed the sarcasm? Wouldn’t it be a terrible position to start over?

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Re:Going from $110k to $24k for more skin in the game by mental1896 on Thursday October 07, 2021 @02:14PM (#28790110)

Depends on your perspective I suppose. As I see it, starting over is a opportunity to try again, this time with all the knowledge you lacked the first time around. You may still encounter many of the pitfalls of the first iteration, but this time, you'll have the advantage of experience.

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Re:Going from $110k to $24k for more skin in the game by ac2u on Thursday October 07, 2021 @09:56AM (#28786311)

"Dropping your salary by over 75% to below poverty wages doesn't signal to me that you have "skin in the game"

Why not? Author remains exposed to the upside through equity but their downside was always limited by their comfortable salary

You might think that's a poor choice, and you might be right, but it's the very definition of skin in the game that poorer choices on their part leaves them more exposed to a poorer outcome.

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Re:Going from $110k to $24k for more skin in the game by dfxm12 on Thursday October 07, 2021 @10:09AM (#28786441)

Or that you can afford to take big risks because you have parents who are willing and able to support you. The rich get richer...

I agree with you, having to take such drastic measures to prove (to investors or yourself) that you have "skin in the game" wouldn't look good to me. It's cute to romanticize this ala Rocky III, but coming up with creative ways to overcome a lack of intrinsic motivation to do your job well is drama best left for the big screen, IMO.

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