A bottle of 5% beer is defined as 1.7 units, therefore a bottle of 6.5% or 7% craft beer would be well over 2 units.

Most of the beers I like are 7.5%, except stouts which are 10-12%. They also come in large 16oz cans. Two of these is almost 4 drinks. "Craft beer enthusiast" can start to approach heavy drinker very quickly.

I often socialize with a Belgian guy, and he will choose similarly strong Belgian beers, but will almost always split the bottle with someone else. I think that can would probably be split three ways — it is equivalent to 2½ to 3 reasonable glasses of wine.

Sometimes that means drinking less, but it might also mean each person tries a wider selection of beers.

(A deleted comment asked for a "European" view, and I should make clear this is not a unified European view. That's impossible, as drinking culture varies massively between countries, by drink, culture, law and tax.)

Here was the reference I used. Small glass of red/white/rosé wine (125ml, ABV 12%) 1.5 units Bottle of lager/beer/cider (330ml, ABV 5%) 1.7 units

473ml*0.12 = 57ml of alcohol (!) - so almost 6 10ml units in a single can??? so two of those 12% stouts would be 11.4 units! Ouch... Yeah. Maybe switch to one of them as a special treat once in a while. :)

But the comparisons in this discussion are all confused, as the first person wrote "US measuring cup" but used UK alcohol "units" (which are 10mL = 6g), but the US "standard drink" contains 11g = 18mL alcohol.

UK units are nicer to calculate, as an example 150mL glass of 13% wine contains 150 × 13 ÷ 1000 → 1.95 "units" alcohol (19.5mL).

But the US standard drink is probably nearer to what people actually consider one drink. The UK site shows that typical drinks are nearer 2-3 units [3].

[1] https://www.wineware.co.uk/professional-stainless-steel-thim...

[2] https://www.gov.uk/weights-measures-and-packaging-the-law/sp...

[3] https://www.nhs.uk/live-well/alcohol-support/calculating-alc...

"For example, in the United States, a standard drink contains about 14 grams of alcohol." "Different countries define standard drinks differently. For example, in Australia, a standard drink contains 10 grams of alcohol,[4] but in Japan, one "unit" contains approximately 20 grams."

I guess if you're paying by the bottle who cares. Ensures more consumption?

And, was more noting how people could deceive themselves. I just fetched one of the large wine glasses from the kitchen. Filled but well below the rim (maybe a couple of cm below) it was 2 cups of water (so 6 units!) - I emptied out the water and filled it with 1 cup of water (so well over the 2 units) the glass was less than half full. Visually looked about a third of the way up the glass due to the curve.

All of a sudden, I was on the road to alcoholism, just by trying to fit in and be a little more extroverted. And the booze certainly helps someone who is anxious and introverted do exactly that.

Yes, I know several people that fit that description by much more than 2 drinks every single day.

Sometimes people spend years trying to find the right prescription drug to quiet their daemons (with awful side-effects along the way) but oh so often, good ol’ over-the-counter alcohol JustWorks.

Both my parents, who were successful professionals, did this.

I wasn't even aware it was abnormal.

Separately, when I was in the army, and much younger, we all consumed significantly more than 2 drinks day and were still high performers at our job.

  750 mL ÷ 2 * 0.12 = 45 mL = 4.5 "UK units"
  45mL * 0.789g/mL ÷ 14 = 2.54 "US standard drinks"

I know many people who fall in the second from the top decile of drinking (i.e. between 2 and 10 drinks a day). Some of the people who I think are in this group are probably actually in the top decile (above 10 drinks a day) and conceal the real quantities they consume

Let me put it this way, 75% of alcohol is sold to people who drink more than 10 drinks per day and this group comprises 10% of the US (the top decile of drinking.) Given the numbers it is pretty clear that a strong majority of this group is not homeless.

None of them show physical symptoms yet, all highly functioning people, but I suspect that is mostly due to their youth (20-40).

I personally went teetotaler about a year ago. Drinking is loads of fun and I miss it, but I appreciate a steady mood now way more than the ups and downs of alcohol induced euphoria, then potential anxiety etc.

I think people definitely understand that heavy drinking (e.g. more than 2 drinks per day) is bad for you. The question is really about the impact of moderate drinking (1-2 drinks) where the science is unsettled, and people have differing opinions. Answering this was the goal if this particular study.

I really feel like moderate drinking is a poor standard invented by the industry to prevent loss of sales due to science, and ultimately an oxymoron not unlike safe cigarette, clean coal.

Though alcohol is out of the drinker's system within 24 hours, what that drink does to their system takes a month to play out. Yet someone who has had strictly 1-2 drinks a day for decades is somehow a moderate drinker? If a drinker hasn't gone a single month without a drink since their junior year of high school, I believe the more accurate label is alcoholic.

I was in engineering school so many of my friends at the same intellectual caliber were more interested in robots than partying, but even the more enthusiastic drinkers would only drink that much if we were partying.

It'd be interesting to see the experience of folks in continental Europe, where I gather wine with meals is much more commonplace.

I believe people should be free to chose to drink too, but alcohol is truly in the "culture", like you said. Very few clearly harmful activities like that are part of any culture and that is what makes it important for us to educate society about this. I believe that alcohol should come with the same level of warning as cigarettes do, but the society is not there yet.

I haven't personally managed (or even tried) to convince anybody because people feel personally attacked when their preferences are questioned, especially when these people believe themselves to be "scientifically-minded". I think everybody has to discover this on their own.

> Does anyone actually know anyone who drinks more than 2 drinks every day? The only people I knew like that were homeless

My uncle died a couple years ago. He was a functional alcoholic and workaholic for almost his whole life, until his age caught up with him and he couldn't work anymore. Then he just became an alcoholic. He was a multi-millionaire when he died, so he could have afforded the help if he wanted it and could have admitted to anyone (not least of all himself) that he had a problem.

Alcohol itself is not a problem. Alcohol ADDICTION is a very serious problem that does not get anywhere near the attention and seriousness that it should.

> Am I naive for thinking that everyone knows that Alcohol is not good for them?

Yes. And of those who know, many simply don't care and value the buzz more than the health downsides. Or feel helpless to stop due to the grip of addition. Or are so far gone that they secretly hope for an early death.

> You also can't ban alcohol.

I agree that a flat-out alcohol ban would be a failure. It was already tried and not only did it not work and caused all kinds of strife, it essentially gave rise to organized crime. If it was tried today, it would look identical to the War on Drugs which did nothing to help society, lined the pockets for various government organizations, contractors, and politicians, and filled prisons with non-violent offenders.

> I barely drink, but its undeniably important to our culture.

I'll agree that it is "important" in the sense that it is omnipresent in many people's daily lives. Even if I don't drink regularly, many friends, families, and neighbors do. People drink on the TV shows I watch. Co-workers make jokes about how many beers it takes to debug a particular program. People I know die directly or indirectly from it.

But is it a necessary part of any culture? Absolutely not. And just to be clear, I'm not arguing for a ban or any other method, but when I ask myself whether the world would be better off without mass alcohol consumption, the answer is an unequivocal yes.

Yes, extremely. Aside from the fact that I know plenty of people in my extended family who drink more than 2 drinks per day, the vast majority of my family clings to the "a drink a day is better for you than none".

During one stretch of my life where I was really stressed out I was having 2-3 glasses of wine a night for about 3 straight months. Aside from that, I can't imagine having more than a glass or two of something every week or so.

A single coffee costs $4 before tip most places I've visited in Austin.

[0] https://www.cnbc.com/2019/02/01/how-much-a-case-of-beer-cost...

[1] https://www.mercurynews.com/2020/01/21/two-buck-chuck-return...

My local beverage store has lots of wine choices < $5, many have pretty good reviews (4+ stars out of 5)

Though if you're looking for the best bang for the buck, they have a 1.75l vodka for $8.99 - at 40 servings per bottle, that's about 50 cents a day for 2 servings a day.

If, as you say, you cannot (and should not) ban alcohol, then finding out how bad it is, and in what ways, is somewhat important.

Joking aside, the dose makes the poison. On a society level, alcohol is a problem, but on a personal level, it is still unclear how much of an effect moderate drinking has, and in which direction it goes, that's the topic of the article.

If you want a strong poison most of us use, take acetaminophen. More than 12g and it can kill you by liver failure. It is the leading cause of acute poisoning, and yet, it is very safe at normal doses (1gx3/day).

That said, I'm interested in the moderate drinking results.

Some alcohol intake is perhaps self medication for other issues - ie, stress etc. Perhaps there is a small positive there - though a larger positive would be to try and solve root causes?

Not - HN has gotten a bit downvote heavy these days - don't take it too seriously.

Where are you located? My impression --- which I'd like to see better evidence for --- is that in the US, heavier drinking is more prevalent in higher social classes on the East Coast than the West Coast.

I'm 5'11", 235lbs - I could stand to lose a little weight, but I've got a lot of muscle mass. I can drink a standard 12-oz 5% beer with a meal and not even notice the alcohol.

I can do that at lunch and dinner and not be noticeably intoxicated at all.