News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:Ask HN: What do engineers never talk to their bosses abou... by neverminder on Monday October 04, 2021 @09:50AM (#28746663)
Most bosses are aware of the issues, so an engineer playing a rebel and bringing them up wins nothing. The only way to attract attention is to leave.
Re:Ask HN: What do engineers never talk to their bosses abou... by Loughla on Monday October 04, 2021 @10:06AM (#28746865)
Step 1: Assume nothing.

2: Voice your opinion directly to your supervisor in a respectful manner, and ask for follow-up.

3: Wait for follow up and track any changes made to processes or whatever.

4: Give a reasonable amount of time.

5: Then leave.

If you skip to 5, you're not really trying to fix the problem. You're just jumping ship - that's not a solution, really. Being an adult professional in the workplace requires you to confront problems directly.

Re:Ask HN: What do engineers never talk to their bosses abou... by xenihn on Monday October 04, 2021 @10:37AM (#28747297)
What's not adult and professional about increasing your tc by 30-40% every time you jump ship
Re:Ask HN: What do engineers never talk to their bosses abou... by pc86 on Monday October 04, 2021 @10:39AM (#28747323)
Who's talking about comp? While that's a perfectly valid reason to leave, we're talking about interpersonal interactions between a manager and an IC.
Re:Ask HN: What do engineers never talk to their bosses abou... by xenihn on Monday October 04, 2021 @10:59AM (#28747576)
What do you think usually causes ICs to begin looking for new jobs in the first place
Re:Ask HN: What do engineers never talk to their bosses abou... by JasonCannon on Wednesday October 06, 2021 @10:58AM (#28773929)
Not pay. Almost always because of issues with management/other workers. https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/employees-dont-leave-companie...
Re:Ask HN: What do engineers never talk to their bosses abou... by Loughla on Monday October 04, 2021 @11:31AM (#28748001)
>Most bosses are aware of the issues

This is not about compensation.

Leaving for compensation is absolutely a valid reason. Again, though, the same rules apply. Express to your employer you have received a job offer at X% more, with X improved benefits, and would gladly stay for a match. The worst they can say is no, correct?

Either way, the original conversation was about issues with the employer/manager. Not necessarily compensation.

Re:Ask HN: What do engineers never talk to their bosses abou... by tcbasche on Thursday October 07, 2021 @04:57AM (#28783831)
I feel like that’s a bell you can’t unring though. What if they say yes? How can an employer possibly trust you don’t just go looking for an even better deal in a few months?
Re:Ask HN: What do engineers never talk to their bosses abou... by goalieca on Monday October 04, 2021 @09:53AM (#28746708)
I once had a series of exit interviews that went all the way up to the vp of engineering. I think they all knew the issues but didn’t want to admit it. I was also being coached on what to say to the higher levels. I really did not appreciate that.
Re:Ask HN: What do engineers never talk to their bosses abou... by wongarsu on Monday October 04, 2021 @10:09AM (#28746915)
If they're coaching you on what to say at least they think that the higher level isn't acutely aware of all the issues. So you might still have done some good with your honesty.
Re:Ask HN: What do engineers never talk to their bosses abou... by goalieca on Monday October 04, 2021 @10:41AM (#28747354)
At least one boss didn’t want me to make him look bad. Even the vp wanted me to understand that any problems were not his fault which seemed like a weird thing for a person responsible for thousands of employees.
Re:Ask HN: What do engineers never talk to their bosses abou... by rwmj on Monday October 04, 2021 @10:27AM (#28747167)
Having never done an exit interview, are they required? Did you have to do them or lose some back-pay/benefits?
Re:Ask HN: What do engineers never talk to their bosses abou... by dahart on Monday October 04, 2021 @10:47AM (#28747418)
No, withholding pay for failure to participate in an exit interview is totally illegal. They can offer incentives to participate, but they cannot withhold due compensation. Whether you do the interview is optional and up to you, but regardless, you have complete control over what you say during the interview, so you never have to bring up problems. It’s rarely a good idea to bring up what you think are systemic problems during your exit interview; there is usually zero upside for you to vent your feelings, and you could accidentally open yourself to liability and/or to reputation damage with your future employers. The time to speak up about problems is long before you leave, while you’re trying to participate in the solution. The best “stated” reasons to leave are because you found something that better fits your own goals, something that is out of the control of the employer you’re leaving, and not because you’re fed up with their inability to fix something (even if it’s true).
Re:Ask HN: What do engineers never talk to their bosses abou... by jdavis703 on Monday October 04, 2021 @10:41AM (#28747356)
IME even if they’re mandatory you can give BS answers that sound plausible but don’t burn any bridges. Of course, you should weigh this with improving your coworkers experience and the value of any stock you may own (a high turnover rate in a knowledge-based industry is generally bad for the business.)
Re:Ask HN: What do engineers never talk to their bosses abou... by pc86 on Monday October 04, 2021 @10:40AM (#28747333)
They're typically scheduled during your work day after you've given notice. Why wouldn't you?
Re:Ask HN: What do engineers never talk to their bosses abou... by gozzoo on Monday October 04, 2021 @10:11AM (#28746944)
why did they think you needed to be coached? isin't the purpose of the exit interview to share your insights in order for the company to know about issues they were obviously missing or aoviding.
Re:Ask HN: What do engineers never talk to their bosses abou... by jdavis703 on Monday October 04, 2021 @10:42AM (#28747367)
Because the mid-level manager doesn’t want to look bad to the VP.
Re:Ask HN: What do engineers never talk to their bosses abou... by goalieca on Monday October 04, 2021 @10:43AM (#28747377)
I’d say the exit interviews were politically motivated. Most employees had already given months/years of feedback that was never resolved before it got to that point.
Re:Ask HN: What do engineers never talk to their bosses abou... by gwbas1c on Monday October 04, 2021 @10:45AM (#28747401)
> The only way to attract attention is to leave

That only makes sense if you don't like your job and your new job is better. People who leave are quickly forgotten.

Otherwise, if you like your job, it's in your best interests to figure out how to fix it.

Re:Ask HN: What do engineers never talk to their bosses abou... by mplewis on Monday October 04, 2021 @09:57AM (#28746750)
If you never ask for change, you’ll never find any.
Re:Ask HN: What do engineers never talk to their bosses abou... by throwaway_srb on Monday October 04, 2021 @09:52AM (#28746692)
This is horrible advice.