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Re:San Francisco raises Tesla 'self-driving' safety concerns... by roenxi on Sunday September 26, 2021 @05:24AM (#28659519)
> But if there isn’t, these experiments should progress as they could ultimately reduce mortality.

Another aspect that is important but easy to miss - deaths caused by an autonomous vehicle are learning experiences - once a couple have happened there will be an engineering response and they will stop happening.

Compare that to ordinary drivers, where each death is just a pointless waste of a life. There is an argument in favour of putting these cars on the road even if they were more dangerous than humans. The faster we push through the painful learning experience the sooner the payoffs of superhuman driving will start being felt in the death statistics.

Re:San Francisco raises Tesla 'self-driving' safety concerns... by jacquesm on Sunday September 26, 2021 @06:24AM (#28659757)
> once a couple have happened there will be an engineering response and they will stop happening

That's the mother of all assumptions. They might get worse as a result of the engineering response. You are assuming that there is a perfect understanding of the problem space. There isn't. This is not a 'mere matter of engineering' at this stage.

Re:San Francisco raises Tesla 'self-driving' safety concerns... by shkkmo on Sunday September 26, 2021 @12:18PM (#28662129)
It isn't that big an assumption given how the engineering responses to incidents include incorporating those incidents into their simulated testing processes.

The point is that the understanding of the problem space increases with each incident. This doesn't mean that regressions are impossible (they are probably inevitable), but each regression also increases understanding of the problem space.

Re:San Francisco raises Tesla 'self-driving' safety concerns... by toast0 on Sunday September 26, 2021 @02:14PM (#28663163)
> Another aspect that is important but easy to miss - deaths caused by an autonomous vehicle are learning experiences - once a couple have happened there will be an engineering response and they will stop happening.

A death isn't the same as running into a stationary emergency vehicle of course, but AFAIK Tesla hasn't taken any meaningful engineering response to that issue. Assuming they will to other issues seems overly generous.

OTOH, Waymo seems to have only crashed into one bus, assuming it would move over.

Re:San Francisco raises Tesla 'self-driving' safety concerns... by d3nj4l on Sunday September 26, 2021 @06:05AM (#28659667)
That’s fine and all, but who’s going to volunteer to die for no fault of their own, just to progress science? Heck, what if it isn’t even someone who signed up for the FSD beta but just a random bystander the car decided to run over.
Re:San Francisco raises Tesla 'self-driving' safety concerns... by mwint on Sunday September 26, 2021 @09:47AM (#28660861)
You’re missing the point: Random bystanders are run over by human drivers all the time. But when a human driver makes a mistake, we can’t analyze what happened and push out an update to everyone else.
Re:San Francisco raises Tesla 'self-driving' safety concerns... by d3nj4l on Sunday September 26, 2021 @09:49AM (#28660876)
That’s fine, but you can’t sign people up for medical trials just because people die from diseases anyway. You don’t get to force other people into becoming Guinea pigs for science.
Re:San Francisco raises Tesla 'self-driving' safety concerns... by happytiger on Monday October 04, 2021 @05:39PM (#28752404)
Unfortunately or not, this is exactly what Deaths per X miles driven statistics actually are. And that’s the statistic set at the base of automotive safety policy decision making.

https://www.iihs.org/topics/fatality-statistics/detail/state...

Re:San Francisco raises Tesla 'self-driving' safety concerns... by happytiger on Monday October 04, 2021 @05:38PM (#28752390)
Unfortunately or not, this is exactly what Deaths per X miles driven statistics actually are. And that’s the statistic set at the base of automotive policy making.

Here: https://www.iihs.org/topics/fatality-statistics/detail/state...