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Re:The Sweden experiment: how no lockdowns led to mental hea... by danjac on Sunday August 22, 2021 @05:25PM (#28269774)
The Telegraph is essentially the mouthpiece of the British commercial property landlord classes, who have a vested interest in getting people back into the offices and shops in their portfolios. On an average day you'll notice multiple anti-remote working articles parroted by Cabinet ministers. Why should they care how businesses conduct their business, especially if it's more convenient and can lead to a happier and more efficient workforce? Follow the money.

It used to be - many years ago - a stodgy and conservative yet reputable newspaper (they fired Boris Johnson for lying, now he moonlights as a columnist). As with other newspapers (e.g. WSJ) it went off the deep end a long time ago.

Re:The Sweden experiment: how no lockdowns led to mental hea... by corney91 on Sunday August 22, 2021 @06:17PM (#28270217)
It was The Times that fired Boris Johnson for lying, The Telegraph hired him after that.

They have gone off the deep end though. Some good coverage of The Telegraph's fall in standards is Peter Oborne's resignation letter: https://www.opendemocracy.net/en/opendemocracyuk/why-i-have-...

Re:The Sweden experiment: how no lockdowns led to mental hea... by hkt on Sunday August 22, 2021 @06:50PM (#28270486)
It continues to astonish me how far the telegraph (and conservatism generally) has left people like Oborne behind. Really quite something to behold, and pretty deeply alarming.
Re:The Sweden experiment: how no lockdowns led to mental hea... by bluGill on Sunday August 22, 2021 @07:10PM (#28270620)
Is there anyplace a conservative can find real news anymore?
Re:The Sweden experiment: how no lockdowns led to mental hea... by mhh__ on Sunday August 22, 2021 @07:16PM (#28270644)
Anywhere reputable.

For example, I read the guardian pretty much everyday, and various other papers, even though although culturally I am a proper grauniad-reader type, politically I am not - but by virtue of actually reading the articles text you can actually (believe it or not?) determine both the facts and the flavour separately.

Re:The Sweden experiment: how no lockdowns led to mental hea... by lmm on Sunday August 22, 2021 @09:38PM (#28271522)
Be careful. It takes conscious effort to read sceptically; whenever your attention slips you'll find yourself absorbing the views the writer wants you to.
Re:The Sweden experiment: how no lockdowns led to mental hea... by nl on Sunday August 22, 2021 @11:34PM (#28272090)
Financial Times is pretty good, and definitely not liberal.
Re:The Sweden experiment: how no lockdowns led to mental hea... by danjac on Monday August 23, 2021 @01:38AM (#28272627)
Yes, that's correct - by Max Hastings, who said of Johnson, "don't trust this man with your wife or your wallet".

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/jun/24/boris-...

Re:The Sweden experiment: how no lockdowns led to mental hea... by poulsbohemian on Sunday August 22, 2021 @07:20PM (#28270676)
I'm glad to see someone call out the WSJ... I was a subscriber for many years and it was a conservative yet outstanding source of information. Today it's crap, yet still trades on its historic reputation. Really breaks my heart as I've not been able to find a replacement.
Re:The Sweden experiment: how no lockdowns led to mental hea... by galaxyLogic on Sunday August 22, 2021 @08:26PM (#28271069)
I think the downhill started when Rupert Murdoch's News Corporation bought it. Anything they touch turns into ... bad things. Why is that? Because there are people who crave propagandists news. It is good business, tell us what we want to hear ..
Re:The Sweden experiment: how no lockdowns led to mental hea... by malloryerik on Sunday August 22, 2021 @08:24PM (#28271055)
What about the Financial Times and Bloomberg?
Re:The Sweden experiment: how no lockdowns led to mental hea... by lmm on Sunday August 22, 2021 @09:43PM (#28271548)
Bloomberg has major problems; they have no proper separation between advertising and editorial (a high-profile article on corruption in the Chinese government, following up on an article that had narrowly missed out on the Pulitzer the year before, was spiked in what very much appeared to be a move to protect Bloomberg terminal sales in China), and they still haven't retracted (or clearly stated that they're standing behind) their dubious "hack chip" story.
Re:The Sweden experiment: how no lockdowns led to mental hea... by nl on Sunday August 22, 2021 @11:41PM (#28272125)
> their dubious "hack chip" story

It shocks me that people believe manufacturer denials on this particular issue but still claim to be immune to commercial propaganda.

It's unlikely there will ever be undeniable proof available to the general public one way or the other on this. But the story was well sourced, was definitely technical credible and the parts that could be checked all checked out. Literally the only thing against it was manufacturer statements saying "nah".

But follow up articles have expanded that, and are starting to name people who say they have seen evidence now: https://www.theregister.com/2021/02/12/supermicro_bloomberg_...

In particular, check out page 71 of [1], where a former US Marine testifies under oath in a federal case about a similar things happening with Lenovo laptops in 2008 in Iraq. Quote:

A large amount of Lenovo laptops were sold to the US military that had a chip encrypted on the motherboard that would record all the data that was being inputted into that laptop and send it back to China.

[1] https://assets.bwbx.io/documents/users/iqjWHBFdfxIU/r9dKMMM0...

Re:The Sweden experiment: how no lockdowns led to mental hea... by lmm on Monday August 23, 2021 @12:24AM (#28272324)
I'm glad to hear that Bloomberg is still talking about this - there was a point where it looked like they were just going to wait for it to fade away.

If it's real, it really shouldn't be that hard to prove conclusively - find the chip, scan it, dump what's in it. The technical parts are possible but not that plausible - not just the manufacturer but large internet companies with the right expertise were sceptical, and most of the people who thought it was genuine seemed to be non-technical. E.g. "had a chip encrypted on the motherboard" does not inspire confidence that this is someone who knows what they're talking about.

Re:The Sweden experiment: how no lockdowns led to mental hea... by jkhdigital on Sunday August 22, 2021 @09:04PM (#28271287)
So… par for the course among formerly reputable news outlets?
Re:The Sweden experiment: how no lockdowns led to mental hea... by hkt on Sunday August 22, 2021 @06:48PM (#28270467)
Where I live in Yorkshire we call it Tory Pravda. It seems to just be propelled ever onwards by contrarianism.
Re:The Sweden experiment: how no lockdowns led to mental hea... by narrator on Sunday August 22, 2021 @07:24PM (#28270702)
Meta related, but this so perfectly fits my previous comment on the trend these days in "political debate":

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28250033

Re:The Sweden experiment: how no lockdowns led to mental hea... by avmich on Sunday August 22, 2021 @05:36PM (#28269871)
> The Telegraph is essentially the mouthpiece of the British commercial property landlord classes, who have a vested interest in getting people back into the offices and shops in their portfolios.

I'm curious, how does it work in reality? A boardroom meetings where landlord's representative decide what to publish in the next issue to get people into commercial property? A weekly reviews of editors where they have their KPI tied to how well they lure people into buildings? Phone calls from commercial union leaders to publishing houses asking for specific results? Do we have some good articles which would describe mechanics of that or is it all successful clandestine operations?

Re:The Sweden experiment: how no lockdowns led to mental hea... by lamontcg on Sunday August 22, 2021 @06:28PM (#28270315)
You know in an interview loop where you consider "culture fit?" That's it. That's the conspiracy.

For a journalism job at the Telegraph you're going to need to have a resume where you've written the right kinds of articles with the right kind of tone. Have a bunch of articles that you've written sympathetic to Corbyn and those around him and you ain't getting the job.

They won't even need to police you that hard once you've gotten the job, because you've spent 20+ years being brought up a certain way and you're probably not going to massively deviate from your past all of a sudden, particularly not if you're clearly getting paid well based on your current trajectory. Once you get vetted in the interview process they know what they're getting based on the way you present yourself, the way you talk, your background, where you grew up, the schools you went to, etc. And when you've been there long enough you'll vet other candidates the same way.

And its largely the same kind of interpersonal mechanics that govern the formation of cliques in high school, enforced by interviews and performance reviews, with large incentives where if you conform you climb the ladder and gain more wealth and power. Nobody needs to write it all down just like there's no written rules that he art nerds tend to hang out with the art nerds (and I'm sure there's examples of people who you think you can point to who broke the molds there, but they're notable precisely because they broke the molds).

Re:The Sweden experiment: how no lockdowns led to mental hea... by andrepd on Sunday August 22, 2021 @07:59PM (#28270904)
Excellent summary for people who think that there needs to be actual explicit indications for conspiracies (in the original sense of the word) to exist
Re:The Sweden experiment: how no lockdowns led to mental hea... by pharmakom on Sunday August 22, 2021 @05:56PM (#28270048)
Marriage and friendship networks. Particularly those formed in the public school (“public” means paid in UK) system. I doubt it’s official meetings, but rather discussions outside work.
Re:The Sweden experiment: how no lockdowns led to mental hea... by killjoywashere on Sunday August 22, 2021 @06:03PM (#28270105)
Yep, it’s the dinner after the committee meeting, the bar after that. The weekend adventures, etc. That’s where the politics are discovered. And then coordinated.
Re:The Sweden experiment: how no lockdowns led to mental hea... by overeater on Sunday August 22, 2021 @06:21PM (#28270244)
How are public schools paid in the UK? Does that mean private schools are the free schools? Or do they call free public schools something else?
Re:The Sweden experiment: how no lockdowns led to mental hea... by rahoulb on Sunday August 22, 2021 @06:28PM (#28270311)
It’s a historical thing.

In the olden days the only way to get an education was through privately tutoring.

So establishments where everyone was educated together were “public” - even though you paid to attend.

Nowadays “public meaning paid” implies one of these original public schools (Harrow, Eton and the like).

I went to a paid school, founded in 1513, but it wouldn’t be called “public” because it’s not one of those original schools and therefore not high enough in the class system. It would be called “private”.

“Public as in free to attend” schools are known as state schools.

Re:The Sweden experiment: how no lockdowns led to mental hea... by spindle on Sunday August 22, 2021 @06:56PM (#28270521)
Just on a detail, I discovered recently that there have been various official definitions of "public school" and lists of public schools, and FWIW your school probably counts as one according to those. But I agree with your main points and your explanation.
Re:The Sweden experiment: how no lockdowns led to mental hea... by rahoulb on Monday August 23, 2021 @03:57AM (#28273301)
The public schools would say their role is to prepare the future rulers of the country. And my school produced two former Chancellors of the Exchequer so I guess that makes sense.

Mine wasn’t a boarding school though which probably counts for something.

Re:The Sweden experiment: how no lockdowns led to mental hea... by dukeyukey on Sunday August 22, 2021 @07:01PM (#28270558)
"State" school are the free, government run schools. "Public" schools are typically fee-paying, and are named so because when they were founded, anyone who paid could send their children there, rather than it being restricted by class or religion. They were "public" because the general public could send their kids there.
Re:The Sweden experiment: how no lockdowns led to mental hea... by hkt on Sunday August 22, 2021 @06:49PM (#28270474)
The ones everyone else goes to are generally referred to as "state" schools.
Re:The Sweden experiment: how no lockdowns led to mental hea... by guerrilla on Sunday August 22, 2021 @05:45PM (#28269952)
Micromanging is not necessary. They just set the tone and don't hire people who would write anything opposed to their policy [1] which they rarely need to explicitly convey, although they do at times of course. People write things that they really like get rewarded.

"Manufacturing Consent: The Political Economy of the Mass Media" by Edward S. Herman and Noam Chomsky explains how this work with a very large number of examples.

1. https://youtu.be/9RPKH6BVcoM

2. https://www.amazon.com/Manufacturing-Consent-Political-Econo...

Re:The Sweden experiment: how no lockdowns led to mental hea... by throwaway0a5e on Sunday August 22, 2021 @05:53PM (#28270019)
Exactly.

Internet commenters love to think their enemy's minions are stupid.

In reality they're just as smart as you are and don't need to be specifically told what the people in charge do and don't want published and/or what tone they should take.

Re:The Sweden experiment: how no lockdowns led to mental hea... by CrazyPyroLinux on Monday August 23, 2021 @12:18AM (#28272301)
Just imagine if academia were like this...
Re:The Sweden experiment: how no lockdowns led to mental hea... by johnny53169 on Sunday August 22, 2021 @05:43PM (#28269936)
If you're part of a small group of people, it's easy to call your buddy when something bother you or a point of view you don't like gets published
Re:The Sweden experiment: how no lockdowns led to mental hea... by AndyPa32 on Sunday August 22, 2021 @05:37PM (#28269884)
More like a boardroom full of landlords, I guess.
Re:The Sweden experiment: how no lockdowns led to mental hea... by Barrin92 on Sunday August 22, 2021 @08:27PM (#28271071)
>I'm curious, how does it work in reality?

the same way gravity works, you don't start floating through the room even if you don't actively believe in it. The financiers of these papers know the editors and managers they hire, they set the tone, they dine in the same circles, their kids go to the same schools, they live in the same neighborhoods, for ideology to proliferate there are no 'mechanics' required.