News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:Tesla Announces a Humanoid Robot “Tesla Bot” by dartharva on Thursday August 19, 2021 @11:31PM (#28242255)
Why humanoid? That's such an inefficient and overcomplicated structure for a "menial job" home robot. This is either a PR stunt or a luxury product.
Re:Tesla Announces a Humanoid Robot “Tesla Bot” by Geee on Thursday August 19, 2021 @11:47PM (#28242337)
It needs to be compatible with all human spaces and human tools. It'll need to be general purpose to keep unit costs low. This is why the human form is the best.

It's not a menial home robot. It's designed to replace humans in every kind of physical labor.

Re:Tesla Announces a Humanoid Robot “Tesla Bot” by handmodel on Thursday August 19, 2021 @11:55PM (#28242389)
This reminds me of images from the 1900s depicting the future when there were humanoid robots with lots of arms cleaning lots of dishes at once. Of course, it turns out, we did invent a machine to wash dishes but its just called a dish washing machine and is way better at it than humans with arms.

I can't imagine many tasks where a humanoid will be useful. I'm sure you could say that something like house construction could be done by humanoids since there are lots of steps involved but I'm still skeptical that a bunch of specialized tools won't be better at this.

Re:Tesla Announces a Humanoid Robot “Tesla Bot” by Geee on Friday August 20, 2021 @12:13AM (#28242487)
I see it like computers. First there were special-purpose machines, which evolved into programmable general purpose computers. Probably many people said that there can't be so many computing tasks that programmability is needed. I think we'll find out how these will be used.
Re:Tesla Announces a Humanoid Robot “Tesla Bot” by handmodel on Friday August 20, 2021 @12:29AM (#28242594)
I suppose I see the computer as different as it doesn't try to copy anything in nature or existing in tech. ie Google isn't setup like a library, YouTube isn't setup like TV was, etc.

I could see a multi-use robot being used in some instances but I cannot fathom why it would be shaped like a human.

Re:Tesla Announces a Humanoid Robot “Tesla Bot” by Geee on Friday August 20, 2021 @01:05AM (#28242812)
Like I said, there are thousands of tools designed for humans. There are vehicles, ladders, protective suits etc. designed for humans. There are lots of spaces designed for humans in which it needs to move. It makes sense to design the robot so that it is compatible with all these.

And there's nothing wrong with human shape, it would be hard to design a better one.

Re:Tesla Announces a Humanoid Robot “Tesla Bot” by handmodel on Friday August 20, 2021 @01:08AM (#28242831)
The vehicle thing is exactly what boggles me about this. Are you saying that the humanoid will be driving cars/forklifts/bullsozers? What exactly do you mean that its important that a robot interacting with a vehicle is humanoid?
Re:Tesla Announces a Humanoid Robot “Tesla Bot” by Geee on Friday August 20, 2021 @10:44AM (#28246626)
Yes, in addition to everything else, it could drive vehicles.
Re:Tesla Announces a Humanoid Robot “Tesla Bot” by handmodel on Friday August 20, 2021 @12:37PM (#28248047)
Ok. I am wrong in my predictions a lot but this seems way more complicated than just having a computer interface on a bulldozer or whatever - especially given a lot of the cost to operate them is already one of liability
Re:Tesla Announces a Humanoid Robot “Tesla Bot” by stickfigure on Friday August 20, 2021 @12:50AM (#28242715)
How much would you be willing to pay for a machine that folds laundry? At least as much as the machine that washes them, I imagine.

So far the only machines that have come even remotely close to being able to fold laundry (and they aren't very good) have humanoid arms.

Re:Tesla Announces a Humanoid Robot “Tesla Bot” by handmodel on Friday August 20, 2021 @01:03AM (#28242794)
I could be wrong but I dont think it is reasonable that a humanoid would ever track in price with a washing machine. A washing machine only has a few moving parts while a humanoid is going to be more similar to a car in terms of complexity (though less on parts)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C76osXtpLeM

There are some machines that fold laundry. They don't seem that impressive now. But I imagine if they haven't already - laundry pick-up/delivery services will roll these out.

Re:Tesla Announces a Humanoid Robot “Tesla Bot” by greenknight on Friday August 20, 2021 @12:04AM (#28242445)
The thing is, that this can work alongside humans. say you have 5 people bricklaying and one of those is this humanoid robot. its not a dramatic change from whats currently possible. They are a drop-in replacement.

Think of it as a stepping stone. Like automated cars, Fully automated highways are a ways off where traffic lights are no longer needed, however automated cars that work alongside the rest of the roads are feasible in the near future.

Yes there are better tools, its just a stepping stone to allow change. to force change.

Re:Tesla Announces a Humanoid Robot “Tesla Bot” by handmodel on Friday August 20, 2021 @12:26AM (#28242574)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6s17IAj-XpU

There are bricklaying robots now

I don't think they are used en masse but I think if we do get to the point of some type of brick laying robots being used it will surely be something like this that doesn't have the physical constraints of two arms with limited mobility + nowhere to store bricks

Re:Tesla Announces a Humanoid Robot “Tesla Bot” by mlyle on Friday August 20, 2021 @01:06AM (#28242817)
Something like putting dishes away --- lots of carrying things short distances, changing heights, changing angles, reaching around.

I don't think machines are very close, but bipedal locomotion with human arm like articulation and grasping softish fingers is a reasonable way to get there.

Re:Tesla Announces a Humanoid Robot “Tesla Bot” by askonomm on Friday August 20, 2021 @12:07AM (#28242464)
I wouldn't say that dishwasher is _better_ at washing dishes than a human. More quantity? Sure. More quality? Not based on my experience. Lots of stains just don't come out in a dishwasher.
Re:Tesla Announces a Humanoid Robot “Tesla Bot” by handmodel on Friday August 20, 2021 @12:31AM (#28242605)
The quantity is the quality.

If you can take a restaurant that used to have to have 10 dishwashers and fire 9 of them because a machine works fast - you can keep one guy around to do the tricky stains. Sure is a lot cheaper than buying 5 humanoid dishwashers.

Re:Tesla Announces a Humanoid Robot “Tesla Bot” by kalleboo on Saturday August 21, 2021 @09:13AM (#28256753)
While there are a couple stains a dishwasher has trouble with (typically things that need a presoak, like dough or parmesan cheese), I find that the average quality of a dishwasher wash is way better than doing it by hand, where it's easy to miss a spot, etc. I've also broken several glasses/dishes washing by hand, whereas my dishwasher has never broken anything.
Re:Tesla Announces a Humanoid Robot “Tesla Bot” by olau on Saturday August 21, 2021 @10:39AM (#28257372)
Not even quantity. I can do dishes faster than my dishwasher if you compare end-to-end times. Now, some industrial machines are much faster, but for home use, if I had a humanoid robot that could do dishes, why would I waste space on a dish washing machine?
Re:Tesla Announces a Humanoid Robot “Tesla Bot” by jazzyjackson on Friday August 20, 2021 @12:44AM (#28242687)
Dishwashers were invented because the maids kept chipping the China.
Re:Tesla Announces a Humanoid Robot “Tesla Bot” by Ekaros on Friday August 20, 2021 @01:57AM (#28243116)
I wonder which is cheaper. Human shape and human tools. Or something else and bespoke tools... Think of CNC. Swapping tools is well solved problem.
Re:Tesla Announces a Humanoid Robot “Tesla Bot” by mns on Friday August 20, 2021 @04:11AM (#28243804)
You have cars (which are basically a box on wheels) smashing in clearly visible objects, and you expect a fully functional walking and handling humanoid robot to fold your laundry or even carry a box from one floor to another. I don't think any of us will still be alive when that will happen.
Re:Tesla Announces a Humanoid Robot “Tesla Bot” by bmitc on Friday August 20, 2021 @01:05AM (#28242813)
And they’re going to do this how, exactly?
Re:Tesla Announces a Humanoid Robot “Tesla Bot” by pyinstallwoes on Thursday August 19, 2021 @11:33PM (#28242265)
Really? How many businesses practices are codified using anything other than human-like movement? To expect anything else is the outlier. Any human doing any job in physical labor without specialized design for non-human machinery/robotics is on notice.
Re:Tesla Announces a Humanoid Robot “Tesla Bot” by nemothekid on Friday August 20, 2021 @12:44AM (#28242689)
>To expect anything else is the outlier. Any human doing any job in physical labor without specialized design for non-human machinery/robotics is on notice.

In fields of high automation, like cars, production lines are almost entirely automated. Where you find areas that humans are needed isn't because our fingers are uniquely adapted to any sort of problem - it's because the problem the human solves would likely need AGI for a robot to do. I don't think anyone is anywhere close to tackling AGI.

Re:Tesla Announces a Humanoid Robot “Tesla Bot” by handmodel on Friday August 20, 2021 @01:06AM (#28242818)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ssZ_8cqfBlE

I feel like a lot of factories are going to go in this direction. Lots of complex automation but ultimately very simple mechanisms with a strong framework to make sure nothing goes wrong.

Re:Tesla Announces a Humanoid Robot “Tesla Bot” by pyinstallwoes on Friday August 20, 2021 @11:34PM (#28253940)
What percentage of labor is factories? We're talking about all human physical labor.
Re:Tesla Announces a Humanoid Robot “Tesla Bot” by handmodel on Saturday August 21, 2021 @11:14PM (#28262567)
Is a cashier/bagger physical labor? Is stocking the shelves of a grocery store? What about a truck driver or unloader?

I would say all these jobs would be automated but 0 of these would be automated by a humanoid. Driver/cashier/baggers will be computers with sensors and unlouder/shelfer will be robots more similar to that vid. Things like construction I think will be assembled ahead of time and brought to side with more automated cranes and sensors.

The number of jobs that seem like "this can be automated but can't be automated by a robot and isn't worth it to build specific robot for but IS expensive enough to use a robot that will always be more expensive than a car" seems small to me.

Re:Tesla Announces a Humanoid Robot “Tesla Bot” by elihu on Friday August 20, 2021 @12:52AM (#28242728)
I would hope that they can use a framework that's general enough to adapt to other form factors. So, making a humanoid is a way of giving themselves a difficult enough initial problem that they're less likely to be fooled by early success: the humanoid robot will have to self-balance, walk, open doors, and do a lot of the complex things that humans do without thinking in order to be considered a minimum-viable product.

In the long run if this pans out, I'd expect to see farming and weeding hexapods, equipment-hauling centaurs, wheeled platforms with arms for getting around office spaces, construction bots with long-fingered hands and asymmetrical multi-jointed appendages, and so on. If the AI has a general capacity for motor-skill learning, then you can just give it whatever body is most optimal for the task at hand.

I'm reminded of this video on training an AI to walk through simulation: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pgaEE27nsQwh

Re:Tesla Announces a Humanoid Robot “Tesla Bot” by adabae on Thursday August 19, 2021 @11:44PM (#28242319)
Stonks.
Re:Tesla Announces a Humanoid Robot “Tesla Bot” by foobiekr on Thursday August 19, 2021 @11:32PM (#28242258)
Or just a fraud like most of Musk's announcements.