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Re:WHO inquiry chief 'had concerns' about lab close to first... by cm2187 on Friday August 13, 2021 @03:03PM (#28173016)
To be honest the only way we will ever know is if the chinese would share the genomes of the viruses they stored in their lab, but who would trust them to do that? The express drive-by the WHO did in china served absolutely no purpose. I am ready to bet that all samples have been destroyed and the staff briefed (warned). I would even suspect the samples have not even been analysed by the Chinese themselves as it is better to not know than running the risk of some technician leaking such damaging information (and who would trust the Chinese authorities whatever they say anyway). So my money is on “we will never know”.

But like others, I have strong suspicions. It starts by an improbable coincidence (pandemic starting at the doorstep of a lab). The Chinese have acted guilty from the outset, by lying about the virus, arresting doctors, not allowing any investigation, and pushing crazy alternative theories.

Re:WHO inquiry chief 'had concerns' about lab close to first... by vanattab on Friday August 13, 2021 @03:06PM (#28173074)
>The express drive-by the WHO did in china served absolutely no purpose.

I served it's purpose perfectly! It allowed China to pretend that an investigation was done.

Re:WHO inquiry chief 'had concerns' about lab close to first... by JPKab on Friday August 13, 2021 @03:53PM (#28173744)
To add to your point, it was a chain of improbable coincidences:

Pandemic starting at the doorstep of a lab (that is not located in remotely close proximity to the Yunnan caves where the previous SARS viruses were originating from)

Previous SARS virus outbreaks (SARS1 and MERS) had zoonotic reservoirs identified in months with dramatically fewer resources, but coincidentally, with vast resources and global efforts, no zoonotic reservoir identified for this virus.

Previous SARS virus outbreaks showed a gradual evolution of a virus to progressively becoming more infectious to humans, and equivalent genetic changes in the virus that can be traced. This one started out as highly infectious, and until several months in, mutations weren't very significant.

The Chinese Communist Party (not China, not the Chinese people, but the CCP) has expended far more energy suppressing research and scientific access than any form of investigation into the origins of the virus.

The CCP deliberately suppressed and arrested doctors publicly talking about the virus early on.

Edit:

Forgot to add that there is a direct paper trail (publicly available on data.gov) of grant documents which specify that the funding will be used in WIV for research of bat coronaviruses with (and I quote from the paper) "humanized mice". Humanized mice, in this context, are mice genetically engineered to have human ACE2 receptors lining their respiratory tissue. In what was the most infuriating moment of public testimony I have ever seen, Dr. Fauci argues that infecting humanized mice with animal viruses (resulting in animal viruses that can more easily infect humans) is NOT gain of function research. He was playing an obvious semantic game, where his definition of GOF is the far narrower concept of making an existing human infecting virus more infectious..... Seriously, I was a big fan of the guy until that single bit of testimony. Now i know he's a lying bureaucrat more than he is a scientist.

https://reporter.nih.gov/search/xQW6UJmWfUuOV01ntGvLwQ/proje...

Re:WHO inquiry chief 'had concerns' about lab close to first... by peter422 on Friday August 13, 2021 @05:41PM (#28174913)
> Previous SARS virus outbreaks showed a gradual evolution of a virus to progressively becoming more infectious to humans, and equivalent genetic changes in the virus that can be traced. This one started out as highly infectious, and until several months in, mutations weren't very significant.

Both of these statements are so inaccurate. It took many years before scientists were certain what the reservoir was for SARS, and there were already different lineages of the virus at the Wuhan market!

You are mad at the CCP for putting out misleading information. You are guilty of the same thing!

Re:WHO inquiry chief 'had concerns' about lab close to first... by JohnHaugeland on Saturday August 14, 2021 @02:19AM (#28178504)
Imagine trying to say that a statement you disagree with is equivalent to large scale attempts to prevent the discovery of the origin of a disease, causing more death
[dead]
Re:WHO inquiry chief 'had concerns' about lab close to first... by outworlder on Friday August 13, 2021 @05:46PM (#28174964)
> brainwashed leftists

My heuristic is, whenever I encounter these labels, it's the moment I stop reading. They signal the end of productive conversation, anything surrounding them can be ignored.

Re:WHO inquiry chief 'had concerns' about lab close to first... by lasc4r on Friday August 13, 2021 @06:00PM (#28175122)
From day one it's been silly to assume any outbreak of a virus is from a lab leak without evidence.
Re:WHO inquiry chief 'had concerns' about lab close to first... by dkersten on Friday August 13, 2021 @06:14PM (#28175302)
There's no evidence for the counter argument either, but to believe that we have to accept the big coincidence that it happened to start in the one city where they were studying that exact virus.

I'm not saying that this means it was definitely a lab leak. It absolutely doesn't, without further evidence, but discounting it completely, especially given how suspicious the CCP acted around it (why wait an entire year before letting the WHO investigate and then only for a few hours? why silence scientists and doctors?), is equally silly.

There's no evidence it was a lab leak, there's no evidence that it wasn't either. There's some circumstantial data to suggest that the CCP isn't a trustworthy source. That's all we know.

Yes its silly to assume that it was a lab leak. But its also silly to assume that it wasn't. We don't know what it was.

Re:WHO inquiry chief 'had concerns' about lab close to first... by z3ncyberpunk on Friday August 13, 2021 @06:07PM (#28175227)
There's been plenty, there's been exactly zero evidence though that it was from bats and wet markets. And if it were from bats or other animals, why did fouchi want to collect even more animals that are already being experimented on an increase the rate of already dangerous research?
Re:WHO inquiry chief 'had concerns' about lab close to first... by s5300 on Friday August 13, 2021 @05:38PM (#28174879)
>that aren't brainwashed leftists agree.

>Stop trying to play pretend and believe the truth.

Just like Bush and his Dubya Em Deez, right? The other side is always brainwashed, and your side always "knows the truth"

Why don't you go use that power of yours to go do something helpful?

Re:WHO inquiry chief 'had concerns' about lab close to first... by shakezula on Friday August 13, 2021 @04:28PM (#28174078)
The Chinese didn't do anything that we wouldn't have done. In fact, they took better steps than we did, as far as the pandemic is concerned.

Of course the dude had concerns, anyone with half a brain would explore all of the possible origins and theories. But the lab leak theory is just that - one theory that could explain the situation at hand.

The problem is that too many people have put far too much stock in the lab leak theory to the point that it's being treated as the most likely source of origin, but that's just not what the evidence says.

Re:WHO inquiry chief 'had concerns' about lab close to first... by cm2187 on Friday August 13, 2021 @04:30PM (#28174098)
I'd like to think we don't put doctors in jail when they raise the alarm on a new virus.
Re:WHO inquiry chief 'had concerns' about lab close to first... by rcurry on Friday August 13, 2021 @05:20PM (#28174682)
Well, we do block them on Facebook and Twitter.
Re:WHO inquiry chief 'had concerns' about lab close to first... by aesh2Xa1 on Friday August 13, 2021 @05:53PM (#28175036)
What are you talking about (serious)? Dissent is legal and will not result in imprisonment in the US.

I don't even subscribe to Facebook or Twitter by choice. I definitely wouldn't subscribe to imprisonment by choice, haha. If you're concerned about these platforms controlling their content privately, don't use them.

Re:WHO inquiry chief 'had concerns' about lab close to first... by curation on Saturday August 14, 2021 @12:52AM (#28178051)
Assange?
Re:WHO inquiry chief 'had concerns' about lab close to first... by quantum_magpie on Friday August 13, 2021 @06:08PM (#28175236)
Well, the US seems hellbent on shipping one journalist who broke no law in US to their torture chambers. Until that's sorted out you just can't claim moral superiority.
Re:WHO inquiry chief 'had concerns' about lab close to first... by rcurry on Friday August 13, 2021 @06:36PM (#28175618)
Forget it Jake, it’s Chinatown.
Re:WHO inquiry chief 'had concerns' about lab close to first... by diragon on Saturday August 14, 2021 @02:50AM (#28178643)
This is of course a joke, come on you guys. Nobody seriously compares jailing people to blocking them on social media.
Re:WHO inquiry chief 'had concerns' about lab close to first... by rcurry on Sunday August 15, 2021 @06:03PM (#28192960)
It’s the thought that counts, the social media platforms that ban you would gladly put you in a gulag if they could.
Re:WHO inquiry chief 'had concerns' about lab close to first... by vkou on Friday August 13, 2021 @07:09PM (#28175956)
We just fire them, when they complain about hospital administrators sending them into COVID wards without PPE.
Re:WHO inquiry chief 'had concerns' about lab close to first... by shakezula on Friday August 13, 2021 @04:38PM (#28174208)
Sure, and I'd like to think we don't run scientific tests on black people without their knowledge or consent, but that doesn't line up either.

If you think the U.S. is above unlawfully detaining a doctor, then I've got sad news for you.

Re:WHO inquiry chief 'had concerns' about lab close to first... by iammisc on Friday August 13, 2021 @04:42PM (#28174265)
Great argument... if the US did this, I'm sure no one would demand an investigation... /s
Re:WHO inquiry chief 'had concerns' about lab close to first... by trasz on Friday August 13, 2021 @04:56PM (#28174406)
US did this many times. The investigations ended up like they usually do in US, starting from My Lai - in the best case they’ll find a single scapegoat and that’s it.
Re:WHO inquiry chief 'had concerns' about lab close to first... by iammisc on Friday August 13, 2021 @05:19PM (#28174674)
I'm not claiming the us didnt do this. I'm disputing that people would stay silent when the us does this.

The us does do this and has large and growing domestic opposition movements.

Re:WHO inquiry chief 'had concerns' about lab close to first... by trasz on Friday August 13, 2021 @05:38PM (#28174875)
People don’t stay silent, but the way the US works, it simply doesn’t matter.
Re:WHO inquiry chief 'had concerns' about lab close to first... by iammisc on Friday August 13, 2021 @05:41PM (#28174912)
If we had 100% incontrivertible evidence COVID came from a CHinese lab, I can 100% guarantee you nothing would happen to china.
Re:WHO inquiry chief 'had concerns' about lab close to first... by trasz on Saturday August 14, 2021 @02:36AM (#28178574)
If we had 100% evidence it came from an US lab, nothing would happen either. Your point being?
Re:WHO inquiry chief 'had concerns' about lab close to first... by iammisc on Sunday August 15, 2021 @10:19AM (#28188935)
That doesn't mean knowing isn't worthwhile? Like knowing about FISA courts did nothing to the feds but its worth knowing about
Re:WHO inquiry chief 'had concerns' about lab close to first... by trasz on Friday August 13, 2021 @04:54PM (#28174386)
You mean Li Wenliang, the doctor who was eventually decorated - by Chinese government - for speaking up? He was never put to jail. That’s another case of anti-Chinese propaganda for you.
Re:WHO inquiry chief 'had concerns' about lab close to first... by aesh2Xa1 on Friday August 13, 2021 @05:59PM (#28175109)
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Li_Wenliang

Born 12 October 1985 Beizhen, Jinzhou, Liaoning, China

Died 7 February 2020 (aged 34) Wuhan, Hubei, China

Cause of death COVID-19

Yes, all of that suspicious propaganda about the Chinese government's treatment of dissidents. The decoration came after his death at 34 years old.

> He died from the disease on 7 February 2020, at age 34.[8][9] A subsequent Chinese official inquiry exonerated him, and the Communist Party of China formally offered a "solemn apology" to his family and revoked the admonishment of him.

Re:WHO inquiry chief 'had concerns' about lab close to first... by PicassoCTs on Saturday August 14, 2021 @04:05AM (#28178945)
What actually happened is not what the media reported? The china in the media is not real. Its a fabrication,synthesized by the CCP who is in control of all chinese news sources.

On the ground, the news of the virus was first supressed by local officials, allowing lots of people to attempt a "escape" from wuhan, when they got informed by relatives that something was up. When the pot boiled over, the bejing government stepped in and "walled" in wuhan. But they told that first and acted later, allowing thousands to "escape" ( they boasted about this on social media, thats how we know) and they escaped into lots of other countries - because while national flights were cancelled, international flights were still allowed.

This thing has been a lecture in disastrous disaster management - nothing more, nothing less. Its proof that totalitarian states even suck at the one thing they claim to be good at- being totalitarian.

Re:WHO inquiry chief 'had concerns' about lab close to first... by diragon on Saturday August 14, 2021 @02:51AM (#28178648)
What the Chinese do is different in that when the government orders the people to do something, they actually do it.

Depending on what you think about the virtues of government, that's something between a pretty good thing or the worst horror you can imagine.

Re:WHO inquiry chief 'had concerns' about lab close to first... by dTal on Saturday August 14, 2021 @10:30AM (#28180933)
Do we really have to reduce it to such a simplistic scale as "government good" vs "government bad"? It's like trying to discuss obesity in terms of whether food is good or bad.
Re:WHO inquiry chief 'had concerns' about lab close to first... by shakezula on Saturday August 14, 2021 @04:35AM (#28179081)
I don’t think Americans understand the government having that type of involvement tbh. It’s just so foreign a concept to us as a whole. It’s kind of arrogant tbh.
Re:WHO inquiry chief 'had concerns' about lab close to first... by diragon on Saturday August 14, 2021 @08:58AM (#28180261)
Wait, what is arrogant? Having a government that orders people directly? Or not understanding such a government?