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Re:Nearly half of American workers don’t earn enough to affo... by tomc1985 on Thursday August 12, 2021 @07:54PM (#28163380)
I have tons of anecdata suggesting worse…

I just filled up a propane tank, 3lbs of fuel was almost $10 whereas a year ago it was $5-$6

The price of a California burrito most places here is almost $10, they were closer to $7/$8 before pandemic started spiking beef prices

It’s getting harder and harder to keep the bill at Costco under $100

Uber/Lyft rides that used to be $10 cost $15-$20 during non-surge hours

And so on…

Re:Nearly half of American workers don’t earn enough to affo... by sgtnoodle on Thursday August 12, 2021 @09:54PM (#28164387)
I like to anecdotally track burrito prices.

When I worked in Hawthorne in 2010, there was a $4 burrito option. When I left in 2013, it was a $5.50 burrito.

In the bay area, it seems like burritos with guacamole have been $9-11 for several years now.

Restaurant breakfast burritos have seemingly gone up from $8 to about $12 in the last two years.

Grocery store deli counter breakfast burritos have gone up from about $3.50 to about $4.50.

Microwave burritos have gone up from $not-worth-it to $not-worth-it + 2 over the last couple years.

The diner down the street from me makes the best breakfast burrito for about $9, enough to feed two people. It's pretty amazing, considering it would probably cost me $6 to recreate from the grocery store. My favorite coffee shop in 2019 had a $12 burrito that was a bit overpriced but worth it; they shut down months before the pandemic ramped up, though. I suspect it was partially because of the burrito price. Their food was expensive enough that my wife and I would always share an entree regardless of how hungry we were. We live in a touristy area, and there are local restaurants we won't even consider going to because it's so overpriced.

Re:Nearly half of American workers don’t earn enough to affo... by throw0101a on Thursday August 12, 2021 @10:39PM (#28164731)
> I just filled up a propane tank, 3lbs of fuel was almost $10 whereas a year ago it was $5-$6

Great. And what was it 2 years ago? 3 years ago? In fact propane is still cheaper now than it was in 2018:

* https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/WPU05320104

So yes, perhaps propane has gone up since last year. But last year it was the cheapest it's been since 1999. So of course the YoY change is going to go up.

Further, in regards to CPI, what percentage of propane purchases make up of your expenses, either on a monthly or annual basis? In the US, "Propane, kerosene, firewood" make up .076% of the CPI:

* https://www.bls.gov/cpi/factsheets/household-fuels.htm

In general, household energy makes up 3.605%, with electricity being 2.628%. So while you may feel like it's a big deal, how much of your budget is it really impacting?

What were your expenses in all the various categories of spending last year, and what are they this year? Cherry picking one data point that you just happen to notice does not necessarily mean your expenses are much different in total.

In Canada, StatCan has a personal inflation calculator where you can enter your own expenses for a personal basket of goods:

* https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/n1/pub/71-607-x/71-607-x2020015...

I think if the BLS had a similar tool a lot of the "I think/feel inflation is more than x%" comments would be reduced, as people wouldn't be trying to extrapolate the average CPI to themselves.

Re:Nearly half of American workers don’t earn enough to affo... by notJim on Thursday August 12, 2021 @08:12PM (#28163547)
A lot of this stuff is transitory, and there are signs it's starting to come down. However with the rise of delta, I think we're in for a rocky ride ahead.

Edit: in the spirit of worker solidarity though, if you can convince your boss to give you a 20% raise by showing them the M2 money supply, I fully support you in that.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/simonmoore/2021/08/12/cpi-data-...

Re:Nearly half of American workers don’t earn enough to affo... by gruez on Thursday August 12, 2021 @07:56PM (#28163399)
> I have tons of anecdata suggesting worse…

And that's flawed due to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Availability_heuristic

[thing] increases in price: "omg inflation!"

[thing stays the same]: "meh"

result? "omg inflation!"

Re:Nearly half of American workers don’t earn enough to affo... by tomc1985 on Thursday August 12, 2021 @08:00PM (#28163441)
But… that is inflation. Prices are going up. Such is the anecdata?

Is this effect global? Who knows, it’s anecdata

Re:Nearly half of American workers don’t earn enough to affo... by jxramos on Thursday August 12, 2021 @09:03PM (#28164004)
I've been feeling the price rises too, I second the Costco thing entirely too. I have a ton of receipt data I can analyze. I've been curious to track my personal expenses for things like milk, take out burgers, and other stuff I regularly purchase and have lots of data points on over time. I think the anecdata speaks, very loudly for the individual visibly paying more.
Re:Nearly half of American workers don’t earn enough to affo... by tharkun__ on Thursday August 12, 2021 @10:28PM (#28164653)
I would like to know more. My first suspicion is that most people don't track this data closely enough. Unfortunately after tracking this data for about 15 years, I stopped in 2018 (too cumbersome). I was able to tell you exactly how much money we spent on alcohol vs. dairy vs. veggies etc.

If only I had continued, I could've provided great anecdata here, because we never really "go out". And herein lies the crux. Many if not most other people I know go out regularly. Rain or shine, recently got kids or not etc. So the pandemic hitting would drive up their Costco bills even if prices stayed flat.

Happy to learn that the anecdata presented in this thread is from people like me. But otherwise my "felt" Costco bill has stayed almost the same (minus "normal" inflation).

Re:Nearly half of American workers don’t earn enough to affo... by jxramos on Friday August 13, 2021 @05:29PM (#28174790)
yah the cumbersome part is for real; for the longest I never itemized groceries, just lump sums spent. I've been slowly automating more of the process. For online purchases I write some chrome extensions that scrape the order pages and downloads a Json file for me. Works for the most part and I'm looking to extend to a few more vendors: https://github.com/jxramos/webOrders.

All the data captured over the years omits very fine detail for the most part; things like weights and volumes and stuff. The data is fairly messy but there should have some signal within it however. This motivates me to revisit what sort of receipt OCR stuff is out there, it's been a TODO for a long time. I'm looking for mainly partially automated stuff, fully automate the frequent vendors, manual entry the rest: https://gist.github.com/jxramos/db8195d1972b6d7f7eb0e97be51d...

Re:Nearly half of American workers don’t earn enough to affo... by tharkun__ on Friday August 13, 2021 @10:25PM (#28177269)
Yeah before giving up completely I checked into OCR as well. However I haven't found solutions that are both easily usable by consumers (e.g. a mobile app) and actually is able to itemize and categorize. Everything I found was only able to figure out that something is a say Costco receipt and then categorize that whole receipt say as "groceries". That doesn't help at all.

I even went as far as building a small mobile app using AWS OCR. I was able to itemize and categorize using that but it still required manual "fingerprinting" of each receipt type. Basically figuring out that something was a Costco receipt and in Costco receipts this column in the OCR'd text was the name of the item etc and then also defining the mapping of item name to category.

Worked well enough but I wasn't willing to pay for this after all the free trials and such if it couldn't be monetized by releasing the app. And since the fingerprinting is pretty cumbersome and error prone (Costco doesn't even have a global standard for their receipt format, never mind different gas stations etc) and I neither have the expertise nor the necessary training data for a machine learning approach.

Re:Nearly half of American workers don’t earn enough to affo... by gruez on Thursday August 12, 2021 @08:06PM (#28163494)
>But… that is inflation

did I say it wasn't? The BLS freely admits that inflation is higher than usual at 5.4% YOY. What's being disputed is whether it's 5.4% as the BLS claims or 20% as GGP claims.

>Is this effect global? Who knows, it’s anecdata

The problem is that listing a bunch of things that's gone up by 20% doesn't mean the overall CPI went up 20%. CPI is a weighted measure, so the things you listed only contribute 1% to it, then it can go up 2000% and the CPI wouldn't be anywhere close to the claimed 20%.

Re:Nearly half of American workers don’t earn enough to affo... by tomc1985 on Thursday August 12, 2021 @08:09PM (#28163522)
I read the gp comments as questioning the relevance of the CPI. From my experience it understates the very real price increases I am seeing where I am
Re:Nearly half of American workers don’t earn enough to affo... by gruez on Thursday August 12, 2021 @08:20PM (#28163628)
>From my experience it understates the very real price increases I am seeing where I am

the "very real price increases" you're seeing is clouded by the https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Availability_heuristic. The CPI uses a fixed basket to weigh the different price increases. Meanwhile in your head, your brain weighs price increases based on the shock factor. That lyft ride that got 2x more expensive? That's going to have much more mental weight than your rent that stayed about the same, even though the rent makes up 40% of your monthly spend and your lyft rides makes up 5%.

Re:Nearly half of American workers don’t earn enough to affo... by notJim on Thursday August 12, 2021 @09:09PM (#28164067)
Also good old fashioned confirmation bias. If someone thinks inflation must be through the roof and the government is lying about it, then they're going to notice things that get more expensive, while ignoring things that get cheaper or stay the same.
Re:Nearly half of American workers don’t earn enough to affo... by whimsicalism on Friday August 13, 2021 @09:48AM (#28168771)
The prices faced by the average tech worker are very different. Restaurant prices in SF have one of the highest increasing prices indices in the country, you can look it up.

Ubers have also increased in price.

Groceries.. have not.

Re:Nearly half of American workers don’t earn enough to affo... by notJim on Thursday August 12, 2021 @08:14PM (#28163566)
> Is this effect global? Who knows, it’s anecdata

You say this like no one measures inflation, but in fact we do measure inflation quite carefully, and it's nowhere near 20%.

Re:Nearly half of American workers don’t earn enough to affo... by kylebyproxy on Thursday August 12, 2021 @08:44PM (#28163835)
Ehh, not _that_ carefully. Real inflation is notoriously difficult to track, as you need to take into consideration things like decreases in manufacturing quality, ingredient substitutions, planned obsolescence, etc.
Re:Nearly half of American workers don’t earn enough to affo... by notJim on Thursday August 12, 2021 @08:58PM (#28163961)
Ehh, they try pretty damn carefully. They absolutely do take into consideration things like changing quality and ingredients.

> Pricing information is then sent to our national office, where specialists who have detailed knowledge about the particular goods or services review the data. These specialists check the data for accuracy and consistency, and make any necessary corrections or adjustments. Adjustments can range from an adjustment for a change in the size or quantity of a packaged item, to more complex adjustments based upon statistical analysis of the value of an item's features or quality. Thus, commodity specialists strive to prevent changes in the quality of items from affecting the CPI's measurement of price change.

> Hedonic quality adjustment is one of the techniques the CPI uses to account for changing product quality within some CPI item samples. Hedonic quality adjustment refers to a method of adjusting prices whenever the characteristics of the products included in the CPI change due to innovation or the introduction of completely new products.

https://www.bls.gov/cpi/questions-and-answers.htm#Question_1...

https://www.bls.gov/cpi/quality-adjustment/questions-and-ans...

Re:Nearly half of American workers don’t earn enough to affo... by throw0101a on Thursday August 12, 2021 @10:27PM (#28164642)
> But… that is inflation. Prices are going up. Such is the anecdata?

But what proportion do [thing] and [thing stays the same] make up of your budget? That's why the CPI uses a basket of goods, each in proportion to what the average person uses in their lives to find the average inflation.

And some [thing]s may be more noticeable than others: yes, gas may have gone up, but your care insurance perhaps hasn't, and so perhaps hasn't parts and maintenance. But you fill up more often so you notice those prices more and suffer recency bias.

In Canada, StatCan actually has a "Consumer Price Index Personal Inflation Calculator" so that you can find the quantitate number to your personal experience of inflation give your personal basket of goods, versus the average one:

* https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/n1/pub/71-607-x/71-607-x2020015...

Re:Nearly half of American workers don’t earn enough to affo... by azinman2 on Thursday August 12, 2021 @08:02PM (#28163457)
Uber/Lyft have IPOd and no longer are being pumped artificially, and they need to make up after a year of drastically lower revenue. Lots of things increased in price but that doesn't always mean it's tied to something larger.
Re:Nearly half of American workers don’t earn enough to affo... by tomc1985 on Thursday August 12, 2021 @08:05PM (#28163484)
So you’re saying they will lower prices after they’ve made up for the shortfall? I doubt it. That would be leaving money on the table, and that’s positively unamerican!
Re:Nearly half of American workers don’t earn enough to affo... by azinman2 on Thursday August 12, 2021 @08:08PM (#28163508)
That's not what I'm saying. I'm saying that not only do they not have VC cash mania going on, they're also really hit by Covid. The only way they'd start lowering prices is if demand spikes, things normalized out, and Uber/Lyft wage war on each other as capitalism is supposed to work (but in reality they'll just pick turfs).
Re:Nearly half of American workers don’t earn enough to affo... by ghaff on Thursday August 12, 2021 @08:24PM (#28163676)
They're also still losing money. I'd be surprised to ever see cheap prices again from them.
Re:Nearly half of American workers don’t earn enough to affo... by tomc1985 on Thursday August 12, 2021 @10:24PM (#28164618)
Ironically I have been riding with the local Yellow Cab again, the fixed prices they quote on their app consistently undercut Uber/Lyft and the drivers actually show up in a reasonable amount of time
Re:Nearly half of American workers don’t earn enough to affo... by nradov on Thursday August 12, 2021 @09:46PM (#28164328)
The CPI includes propane and food. Uber / Lyft prices used to be artificially cheap due to VC subsidies but most regular people barely use those services anyway.
Re:Nearly half of American workers don’t earn enough to affo... by tayo42 on Thursday August 12, 2021 @07:59PM (#28163425)
Why is that inflation and not things like supply chain problems or availability?
Re:Nearly half of American workers don’t earn enough to affo... by gruez on Thursday August 12, 2021 @08:01PM (#28163450)
>supply chain problems or availability

If supply chain problems or availability cause prices to go up, that's still inflation. They might call it transitory inflation or whatever, but they won't say "well that's just supply chain problems so we won't count it for this month".

Re:Nearly half of American workers don’t earn enough to affo... by tayo42 on Thursday August 12, 2021 @08:18PM (#28163612)
I see, guess it was a bad question. In the context of this discussion the comment chain seems to be talking about money supply as being the source of inflation. Seems like there's different types of inflation. I see some other comments trying to clarify that too
Re:Nearly half of American workers don’t earn enough to affo... by s5300 on Thursday August 12, 2021 @07:58PM (#28163415)
The Cali Burrito increase has been insane.
Re:Nearly half of American workers don’t earn enough to affo... by ryan_lane on Thursday August 12, 2021 @09:40PM (#28164295)
I don't know where you've been buying them, but $10 is the normal price from the places I'd buy them and has been for ages.
Re:Nearly half of American workers don’t earn enough to affo... by s5300 on Thursday August 12, 2021 @10:19PM (#28164571)
San Diego man, only place it can truly be called a Cali Burrito. That shit in LA is gross.

Most places have gone up about $3 since start of the pandemic.

Re:Nearly half of American workers don’t earn enough to affo... by tomc1985 on Thursday August 12, 2021 @10:35PM (#28164694)
Not sure why you're being downvoted but yes I am speaking about SD.

As for the LA cali burrito heads: don't step dudes. Y'all got plenty of great food that kicks our asses. But we have the best calimex, hands down. "Don't ever argue with a San Diegan about Mexican food"

Re:Nearly half of American workers don’t earn enough to affo... by s5300 on Friday August 13, 2021 @12:35AM (#28165493)
He's probably been paying our new price for his subpar tier burritos the entire time.

I'd almost shed a tear.