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Re:YouTube suspends Rand Paul for seven days by mensetmanusman on Wednesday August 11, 2021 @11:22AM (#28143089)
‘masks’ is about as vague as ‘food’

There are good and bad masks, just as there is good and bad food.

A cloth mask will not protect you against an aerosol (note: am a researcher who has seen the electron microscopy images proving this), that is why N95s are mandated with no beards in any ISO work environment where you are subjected to aerosol risk.

The inability of public dialog on this nuance is just a reflection of our poor scientific education.

Re:YouTube suspends Rand Paul for seven days by fighterpilot on Wednesday August 11, 2021 @11:30AM (#28143213)
> A cloth mask will not protect you against an aerosol

"In unpublished work, Linsey Marr, an environmental engineer at Virginia Tech in Blacksburg, and her colleagues found that even a cotton T-shirt can block half of inhaled aerosols and almost 80% of exhaled aerosols measuring 2 µm across. Once you get to aerosols of 4–5 µm, almost any fabric can block more than 80% in both directions, she says."

"Benn worked with Danish engineers at her university to test their two-layered cloth mask design using the same criteria as for medical-grade ventilators. They found that their mask blocked only 11–19% of aerosols down to the 0.3 µm mark, according to Benn. But because most transmission is probably occurring through particles of at least 1 µm, according to Marr and Jimenez, the actual difference in effectiveness between N95 and other masks might not be huge."

https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-020-02801-8

Re:YouTube suspends Rand Paul for seven days by endisneigh on Wednesday August 11, 2021 @11:38AM (#28143341)
On the other hand some researchers think cloth masks, specifically gaiter types, are worse than nothing.

https://advances.sciencemag.org/content/6/36/eabd3083

> A bigger droplet scatters more light than a smaller droplet. This insight is important to interpret the result of the neck gaiter. The neck gaiter has a larger transmission (110%; see Fig. 3A) than the control trial. We attribute this increase to the neck gaiter dispersing larger droplets into several smaller droplets, therefore increasing the droplet count. The histogram of the binary diameter for the neck gaiter supports this theory (see fig. S5).

Re:YouTube suspends Rand Paul for seven days by fighterpilot on Wednesday August 11, 2021 @11:42AM (#28143399)
That study shows that the large majority of the cloth masks tested were much better than nothing. See Fig 3.A.

The only mask that was worse than nothing was the Neck Gaiter, but the difference was both clinically small as well as statistically insignificant.

Re:YouTube suspends Rand Paul for seven days by endisneigh on Wednesday August 11, 2021 @11:42AM (#28143415)
I'm talking about and referred to [gaiter type] masks specifically.
Re:YouTube suspends Rand Paul for seven days by gibba999 on Wednesday August 11, 2021 @11:26AM (#28143150)
What's really problematic is authentic, substantially N95-equivalent masks are now:

- Available

- Cheap

- Plentiful

- Comfortable

Without a conversation, it's impossible to get people to wear them.

As a footnote, COVID19 spreads through both large droplets and aerosol, and infection is highly dependent on initial viral load. Eliminating large droplets is helpful, especially on the way out.

Re:YouTube suspends Rand Paul for seven days by dfxm12 on Wednesday August 11, 2021 @11:51AM (#28143570)
especially on the way out

This doesn't matter to Paul. Him, and most of his colleagues/voters, etc. base their ideals on individualism. To them, pro-social behavior, like wearing a mask to protect others, is inconceivable.

Re:YouTube suspends Rand Paul for seven days by seanclayton on Wednesday August 11, 2021 @08:24PM (#28150039)
individualism is not selfishness.
Re:YouTube suspends Rand Paul for seven days by gibba999 on Wednesday August 11, 2021 @10:46PM (#28151123)
Indeed it's not.

... and ironically, the liberals are far more individualistic, and conservatives, collectivist, at least as anthropologists use the term.

A big part of the rationale for limited government is family and church support support networks.

Re:YouTube suspends Rand Paul for seven days by ecshafer on Wednesday August 11, 2021 @11:26AM (#28143151)
So you agree with him, as he is saying specifically that not all masks offer protection, and that cloth masks don't.
Re:YouTube suspends Rand Paul for seven days by spiderice on Wednesday August 11, 2021 @11:31AM (#28143225)
Don't let Youtube hear you say that
Re:YouTube suspends Rand Paul for seven days by MarkLowenstein on Wednesday August 11, 2021 @06:49PM (#28148939)
Remember the concept of nerd-sniping? https://xkcd.com/356/ 99% of people, including the sharp and educated people at HN, zealously debate the merits of masks, or the proper priority of individual rights, etc.

But take a step above all of this for a second. Let's say your mask reduces the speed of the spread. Say you wear an N95, and you reduce your chances of getting it in any one day, to near 0. Well that will work...until you take it off. One day, you will have to take it off. And the virus will be right there waiting for you.

Masks may "work" in terms of slowing things, but they don't work in terms of increasing your lifespan more than a few minutes on average, or ending the pandemic. Vaccines do that, or lots of people surviving an infection.

Remember that for all that time in Nov-Jan last winter in the West, everybody and his dog was wearing a mask. Yet more people than ever got it anyway.

Re:YouTube suspends Rand Paul for seven days by crottypeter on Wednesday August 11, 2021 @11:39AM (#28143365)
> A cloth mask will not protect you against an aerosol

I thought the reason we should all wear masks is to protect everyone else around us by preventing our breathing/speaking from creating clouds of airbourne droplets.

I.E. it is supposed to filter the air you put out more than the air you breathe in.

Re:YouTube suspends Rand Paul for seven days by dublin on Wednesday August 11, 2021 @12:39PM (#28144321)
You mean to prevent "speaking moistly"?
Re:YouTube suspends Rand Paul for seven days by skybrian on Wednesday August 11, 2021 @11:41AM (#28143392)
It seems like thinking in terms of works/doesn’t work is excessively binary, as is will/won’t protect you. Some masks are more effective than others.

If you insist on 100% protection then n95 masks don’t “work” and neither do vaccines but that’s misleading as a public heath campaign.

Re:YouTube suspends Rand Paul for seven days by mensetmanusman on Wednesday August 11, 2021 @03:03PM (#28146237)
By aerosol risk, I’m assuming being indoors for extended periods of time with an aerosol risk, e.g. a work environment; would you feel comfortable being in a covid ward with a cloth mask, or would you wear an N95 (which are now readily available), etc.
Re:YouTube suspends Rand Paul for seven days by jtbayly on Wednesday August 11, 2021 @11:51AM (#28143560)
> The inability of public dialog on this nuance is just a reflection of our poor scientific education.

This is the only part of your comment I disagree with. “Science” has very little sway in cultural debates with either side.

Re:YouTube suspends Rand Paul for seven days by mensetmanusman on Wednesday August 11, 2021 @12:17PM (#28143954)
Hmmm. maybe. I just wish CSPAN would show politicians showing histograms of effectiveness with various types of masks, show where covid is, show where aerosols fit, talk about viral load, talk about statistics per minute (e.g. don’t stay an hour indoors with someone with covid using a cloth mask, use an N95, 3 minutes might be okay).
Re:YouTube suspends Rand Paul for seven days by AnimalMuppet on Wednesday August 11, 2021 @07:13PM (#28149285)
I suspect they're afraid to, because someone will say "see, they said I could do this!" when what they actually said was that you are likely to get away with it for a short time.

Instead, they try to present absolute certainty that you have to do this in order to try to persuade those who aren't really listening and don't believe you. But those who aren't really listening and don't believe you are that way partly because they detect that you're talking way past your evidence.

("You" meaning politicians, not the parent, nor the reader.)