I ordered the adapter, outlet, and new wire to move an unused electric dryer service to the garage as soon as I got the car, but haven’t bothered to install them. It just isn’t necessary. (And I dislike taking the face cover off the main breaker box, nothing rational, I just don’t like being that close to the live circuits. If I need to charge a lot overnight, it’s a 30 minute job to install the service.)

For the upfront cost… I had been waiting for the little Jeep pickup truck, but when it came out and I got done adding the basic functional packages it was well up in the Tesla price range. (I’m keeping an elderly F250 out of the crushers for my occasional pickup truck needs, but I could just as easily rent one from the big box hardware store when I need it for less than I pay in insurance on the F250.)

You could do all of the work except for landing the circuit and pay an electrician for an hour to terminate the circuit for you.

So at the least I need to install a second circuit. But the cost of installation is mostly tied into labor rather then material since it involves bringing out a trenching machine out. And the cost difference between just 1 extra 120V circuit and a full blown 240V service with subpanel is significant, but not bad enough for me to think it's makes sense to penny pinch there.

Edit: Well in theory you could also have a receiver and relay that cuts off the charging to the car before initiating powering the garage door motor. That said I don't think it's worth the hassle... at minimum that's two electrical mechanical relays for the 120V lines, some sort of RF receiver for the car, a controller for the relays and to probably some way to signal the garage door itself (replacement for the button inside maybe), and way for the controller to state of the door itself so that it doesn't cut power at the wrong time. Certainly hackable but I doubt I could build it reliable without way more money and time spent on it.

Will it? It’d depend on the breaker and load rating of the wire run to the garage.

I can draw 6kw from one 240v, breaker, so about 25 amps, for a few minutes before it trips from thermal overload.

I load tested a new outlet that was wired on the same circuit, with five devices plugged in, kettle, pressure cooker, slow cooker, fan heater, and hair drier for good measure.

The breaker should trip before the wire is damaged, it did.

Bit of an aside - how is American insurance so stupidly expensive. Here in UK I have a brand new Volvo XC60 PHEV, £60k, 400bhp car, in one of the highest insurance groups(like group 45 out of 50), I'm 30 years old and my fully comprehensive insurance is £400 a year. That's including 20 million liability limit, legal cover, courtesy vehicle, key cover.....etc etc.

Yeah when I was 21 my insurance was £2000 a year on some crappy old econobox, but in general once you turn 25 the insurance falls down rapidly. On my previous Mercedes AMG I paid about £500 a year for fully comprehensive, aged 26.

But of course majority of people pay for training because they want to learn somewhere, and not everyone has parents willing to risk the family car. Surely even in US people pay for training and there's more to the cost than just the $25 test fee?

It varies; you can't make a categorical statement like that based on random stuff you read on the Internet.

My insurance is the equivalent of £430 and I have nearly the maximum liability coverage and comprehensive on a current year model car.

Obviously it depends on your commute, and I've always prioritized a very short commute.

Also, some people lease and have mileage limits. I have the impression that leasing is more popular in the UK, so that might affect the average.

This is the most noticeable difference between US and UK.

Cars here generally have perhaps $300,000 liability, perhaps $500,000. I have $1,000,000 but larger number is covered by an additional "umbrella" policy that includes liability for multiple cars and also my house.

I imagine there are much greater limits for the likes of Bill Gates. But not commonly for the ordinary 99%. Also, despite auto insurance being legally required, probably 10% or 20% don't have it. They don't care, they have no assets, so they're "judgement proof". There are never any serious criminal consequences for this.

Ordinary people can protect themselves against uninsured drivers by adding additional coverage for that to their own insurance policy. In effect, if you have an accident with an uninsured driver, your own policy pays out whatever liability that driver would owe you. This added coverage is not all that expensive.

The most severe damage caused so far in a single car accident in Germany is about 30 Million €: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wiehltal_bridge

Fortunately, they were finally able to repair the bridge and didn't have to completely rebuild it, which would have been vastly more expensive.

https://dave.autonoma.ca/blog/2019/08/06/typesetting-markdow...

> assuming main panel doesn't need upgrading and only installing a 240V circuit.

A Load Miser can split the dryer circuit; charging happens overnight, so no usage conflicts. It was about $1,500 USD for my house to run a line from the attic. YMMV, but probably less expensive.

> You leave an extension cord more then once out overnight, it will get stolen

Vancouver is experimenting with curbside chargers.

https://vancouver.ca/streets-transportation/curbside-electri...

My ROI is now 7 years. The feeling of being off fossil fuels is priceless. (British Columbia is about 80% renewable.)

I'm not sure why that would make any difference.

>Vancouver is experimenting with curbside chargers.

Maybe; I'd be concerned about someone cutting the cables for scrap copper here. I don't know if richer Vancouver suburbs would have to worry about such a thing.

I haven't bought a new car in ages, but my limit was, and remains, €30k. As long as electric cars cost double what comparable fossil fuel cars cost, with half the range, I don't see any electric revolution happening.

Does it? What example do you have in mind? Because the only one I can think of is perhaps the E-Tron compared to the Audi Q5, and I'd argue that to reach the "half" mark you'd get a Q5 that has barely any options fitted in, while the E-Tron will come packed with tech. And then yes, there is the Tesla Model S which is absolutely not worth the money they are asking, but it's an exception not the rule. There's more and more EV vehicles where there isn't a non-EV equivalent for half the price.

I just don't think electric cars make financial sense at all right now. All those car manufacturers saying they won't be making ICE cars within < 5 years anymore must know something I don't, but I don't see who's going to be paying that premium in the low/middle end.

But yeah, I'm thinking more about the cars like the MG ZS EV, which I actually put a deposit down on last year(and cancelled due to coronavirus and working from home, but I test drove it and was 100% willing to buy it) - at £25k it was very affordable for a full EV, with loads of space inside.

And then remember that all manufacturers always start with the most expensive models first because that's where the money is, but more and more cars are arriving form various manufacturers. ID.3 from Volkswagen is already approaching affordable prices in lower specs, but there is the ID.2 coming. And if I were to buy a second car as a runaround now, I'd happily buy a £12k second hand e-Up, it's more than enough for driving around and will cost nearly nothing to use.

If the government passes a carbon tax (or just cuts gasoline subsidies) then the math may change and push me over.

But to avoid harming poor people, they'd have to atomically pass an increase in welfare while making gasoline more expensive for the middle class. So it's politically difficult.

However, if your personal finances suggest a used vehicle is the way to go, your options are rather limited, and will be for a few more years until the current EVs start trickling down. Current 2nd hand EV offerings mostly are Leafs and eGolfs, with a generous helping of Teslas (still rather pricey) on top.

If you need a large-ish family car and cannot afford a new EV, you'll be driving an ICE for a few more years - more if the authorities start taxing EVs to bring them more in line with ICE levels, boosting 2nd hand prices.

Hell will freeze sooner than we will be buying a new car - its just such a stupid waste of money, when the price drops so rapidly and you still get 95% of the new car. ICE cars, especially diesels, just age so well compared to electric ones. I know we will be buying our next car as used ICE, for next maybe 10 years. And so do people around us, in richest country in Europe - Switzerland.

Electric car on level to say well equipped BMW 5 wagon series is what... Tesla model S? Not really, BMW has much higher quality of literally everything that matters in car while sporting much bigger trunk (necessity with kids and active lifestyle).

One should not ignore the price point - most of the world simply can't afford buying electric cars. Its great that western democracies will lead this transition, but when considering whole human population this is a tiny sliver at the moment.

After that comes comfort, space, practicality, engagement in driving (aka fun). And somewhere after that, noble discussions about ICE vs electric vs hydrogen etc. So far its a nobrainer. Maybe in 10 years things will be different, I'll vote with my wallet then.

Yikes! Where do you live, San Francisco? /s

Only other items that are ICE specific I can think of off the top of my head is engine air filter and fluid changes for the transmission and transfer case. Most of the other maintenance is the same AFAIK.

Like I said though, the insurance difference for me kills whatever savings there are from lack of oil changes by a wide margin, even before factoring in higher upfront.

You probably don’t need to change your oil as often as you are, if it’s registering as an expense at all.

Check what the manufacturer actually says - for example my manufacturer says don’t bother changing for two years. Lots of Americans driving the exact same cars change their oil every three months for no reason.

For example, here in the UK the average cost of oil and filter change (if you pay someone to do it rather than doing it yourself) is £102 [1]. Done every other year, this amounts to £51 p.a., which is less than a typical tank of fuel [2].

[1] https://www.fixter.co.uk/blog/how-much-is-an-oil-and-filter-...

[2] https://www.rac.co.uk/drive/news/motoring-news/full-tank-of-...

But that was the point - the requirement to change your oil that often is not real, and so it does not add up.

I doubt regenerative braking is any stronger than that.

And for that price I was sitting in the most uncomfortable seats I've ever sat in for a personal vehicle; thin, hard and not well sculpted for my back. The only positive I recall was the excellent throttle response.

Lease explained here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28096813

Seats are bad, but you can add aftermarket pad. Quick for its class (6 sec 0-60), fun to drive, virtually free with solar panels.

Broker sources online leads for lower price, because buyer’s knowledgeable and ready to sign.