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Re:Launch HN: BlackOakTV (YC S21) – Netflix for black people by ohitsdom on Friday August 06, 2021 @10:25AM (#28087559)
I hear this argument a lot and people use examples like BET and black churches. But take a step back and look at what led to black-specific things. MTV hardly played black artists. White churches excluded and actively attacked black Christians.

White has been the default in America for a long time. Seems like that's slowly starting to change but until it does, there's going to be a need for things specifically targeted at minority groups.

Re:Launch HN: BlackOakTV (YC S21) – Netflix for black people by throwaway2037 on Friday August 06, 2021 @10:38AM (#28087754)
You wrote: <<<MTV hardly played black artists.>>>

I saw this interview recently: <<<David Bowie Criticizes MTV for Not Playing Videos by Black Artists | MTV News>>

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XZGiVzIr8Qg

It blew me away. He is so on point!

Re:Launch HN: BlackOakTV (YC S21) – Netflix for black people by mrits on Friday August 06, 2021 @10:51AM (#28087942)
When I think of MTV in the early 90s I actually think of LL Cool J.
Re:Launch HN: BlackOakTV (YC S21) – Netflix for black people by bluedino on Friday August 06, 2021 @11:35AM (#28088598)
People pretend there wasn't a show called "Yo! MTV Raps"
Re:Launch HN: BlackOakTV (YC S21) – Netflix for black people by blackgirldev on Friday August 06, 2021 @11:46AM (#28088775)
Because rap music is/was the only black music.
Re:Launch HN: BlackOakTV (YC S21) – Netflix for black people by bluedino on Friday August 06, 2021 @11:51AM (#28088851)
MTV also played the Jacksons, Lionel Richie, Tina Turner...
Re:Launch HN: BlackOakTV (YC S21) – Netflix for black people by blackgirldev on Friday August 06, 2021 @11:55AM (#28088927)
No Anita Baker, Mica Paris, Patti Austin, Luther Vandross.

Not saying there were no Black artists: just saying that Black culture wrapped in what white people accept, like is not enough for the Black community.

Edit: you guys downvoting me are likely too young to remember day one on MTV when stuff Blacks actually listened to was not featured on MTV until hiphop culture forced the issue.

Black influence on mainstream music came at a huge cost to Black music stars. They were copied but mostly not included unless they paid homage. Horrible place for them truly.

You have minimal idea about what Black people are really about without another white person’s filter because that’s how it has always been even on BET.

Re:Launch HN: BlackOakTV (YC S21) – Netflix for black people by werber on Friday August 06, 2021 @10:25AM (#28087560)
In a majority white country you don't need to say x for white people, because that's the default. X for minority group isn't a double standard, it's a deviation from the norm. For example, it's pretty common to have x for lgbt people and it's pretty well understood that it's not a double standard because we accept that being straight is the norm.
Re:Launch HN: BlackOakTV (YC S21) – Netflix for black people by rory on Friday August 06, 2021 @10:54AM (#28087989)
> In a majority white country you don't need to say x for white people, because that's the default

If it would merely be a redundancy, why would it provoke outrage? "Conservative Talk Radio" seems pretty redundant to me, but doesn't provoke any emotion.

Re:Launch HN: BlackOakTV (YC S21) – Netflix for black people by RHSeeger on Friday August 06, 2021 @10:41AM (#28087797)
Yes and no. In my opinion...

If it's "focuses on content for <minority group>", that's great. Minorities tend to underrepresented and trying to address that balance by creating more for them is all bonus.

If it's "excludes all but <minority group>", I am not a fan; I thin it causes resentment. The ability to have a group that allows <minority> but not <majority>, but not have a group that allows <majority> but not <minority>, is _wrong_ in my mind. Admittedly, having a group that allows both but focuses on <minority> so that <majority> is unlikely to be interested in joining is reasonable.

I guess the act of specifically excluding/disallowing a group, unless it's acceptable for _all_ groups to do the same, inherently conveys "you are the worse of the two groups". It's insulting and an attack.

Re:Launch HN: BlackOakTV (YC S21) – Netflix for black people by werber on Friday August 06, 2021 @10:55AM (#28088001)
I understand the point you're trying to make, but unless they're excluding white people from subscribing I have a hard time accepting it. An industry that comes to mind is haircare, there are tons of brands and a long history of companies that explictly cater to black hair ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Madam_C._J._Walker , is a great person to look into ). I can buy products from those companies, despite their focus being on the black community, and many being black owned. Conversely, the majority of haircare products available cater to more traditionally white hair types and black people are free to buy them. There is no exclusion, just a market where the majority of the products cater to the majority of people, and there was a market need filled to cater to the minority. A haircare company in say, Nigeria, would not have to go out of their way to say it's catering to black hair, just like Nollywood does not have to say it's featuring black voices, it's just understood that it's a representation of the majority of the population.
Re:Launch HN: BlackOakTV (YC S21) – Netflix for black people by RHSeeger on Friday August 06, 2021 @12:06PM (#28089093)
> but unless they're excluding white people from subscribing I have a hard time accepting it

My apologies; I must not have been clear. Nothing here is an example of something I have an issue with. I was merely pointing out that having "X for <minority>" can go two ways; promote the minority, or exclude the majority. The former is great, the later is not.

I wasn't, in any way, trying to indicate the post is doing the wrong thing. As others have noted, it sounds like a Netflix-ey version of BET which, as far as I know, hasbeen nothing but positive.

Re:Launch HN: BlackOakTV (YC S21) – Netflix for black people by tptacek on Friday August 06, 2021 @10:28AM (#28087604)
Huh? They do make TV for white people. There's Polish TV, there's Russian TV, there's German TV, name it.

It's rude to troll on someone's Launch thread.

Re:Launch HN: BlackOakTV (YC S21) – Netflix for black people by GordonS on Friday August 06, 2021 @10:47AM (#28087889)
Having an opinion is not trolling - I would guess the OP wants honest feedback.

Personally, I'm divided on how I feel about this launch, but if there is a market for it anywhere, it's the US, with its deep-rooted racial divisions and disparities.

The comparisons you are making seem very different, as they are based on language and global geography, rather than skin colour.

Re:Launch HN: BlackOakTV (YC S21) – Netflix for black people by tptacek on Friday August 06, 2021 @10:51AM (#28087945)
"Black" is a culture; it's not merely a skin color. Our country kidnapped millions of people from the African content, stripped them of their heritage and family ties, and randomly moved them around plantations in the American south, then released them and spent 100+ years subjecting them to apartheid laws that they united to fight. It is a whole unique interesting thing (jazz, soul food, the Black church, the Harlem Renaissance), and is as much its own culture as any ethnicity that has a TV station.
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Re:Launch HN: BlackOakTV (YC S21) – Netflix for black people by eropple on Friday August 06, 2021 @11:35AM (#28088600)
For those not in the United States: this is (and I assume the spittle-flecking about "kneeling to BLM" made this a tip for some people, but let's make the implicit part explicit) a very common point of rhetoric amongst slavery apologists and Lost Causers of many stripes.

The idea of permission structures for white Americans being somehow erected because some ethnic groups and communities sold people from other ethnic groups and communities (because, and I apologize if this is obvious to some readers, the compaction of people of African descent into "African-American" is, for obvious reasons, something here and not there) is one of a set of apologetics in common use in the United States designed to erase the complicity of our forebears.

Good luck to BlackOakTV. I look forward to seeing what happens next for you all.

Re:Launch HN: BlackOakTV (YC S21) – Netflix for black people by Veen on Friday August 06, 2021 @12:06PM (#28089087)
Do you think there aren't Black Germans and Asian Russians?
Re:Launch HN: BlackOakTV (YC S21) – Netflix for black people by tptacek on Friday August 06, 2021 @07:02PM (#28093772)
Are you saying you invented paper!?
Re:Launch HN: BlackOakTV (YC S21) – Netflix for black people by treis on Friday August 06, 2021 @10:24AM (#28087545)
>And imagine the outrage if someone had made “X for white people”. There’d be riots in streets.

The idea is that "X" is de facto "X for white people" in America. I don't necessarily agree with it, but that's the argument.

Re:Launch HN: BlackOakTV (YC S21) – Netflix for black people by josteink on Friday August 06, 2021 @10:29AM (#28087627)
Thanks for the constructive reply. I wasn’t aware of such default assumptions.

I still thinks it sounds like nonsense, but at least it explains the massive downvotes Im getting :D

It must be hard to live in a country where everyone is so obsessed with race, yet supposedly also how it “is not important”. To me that seems like a massive contradiction.

Re:Launch HN: BlackOakTV (YC S21) – Netflix for black people by zentiggr on Friday August 06, 2021 @10:59AM (#28088051)
It's not "IS not important"... it's "SHOULDN'T be important".

Bigotry, hatred, and violence, whether explicit or less obvious (voting rights, bias in many services etc) is the problem that some us unfortunately continue and the rest of us want to end.

Re:Launch HN: BlackOakTV (YC S21) – Netflix for black people by KittenInABox on Friday August 06, 2021 @11:12AM (#28088252)
The problem is that this country has an extremely long history being obsessed with race, mainly by systematically stripping away the humanity of anyone considered nonwhite. This was most prominently to black people, to the point where they were literally property to wealthy whites, and once they stopped being property it was common to extrajudicially hunt them down and kill them in many primarily white communities for things like staying overnight.

In america there are black people alive who weren't allowed to vote because of their race.

Given the history of race in america it makes total sense that america is still grappling with race while also there is significant pushback against that grappling.

Re:Launch HN: BlackOakTV (YC S21) – Netflix for black people by krapp on Friday August 06, 2021 @10:41AM (#28087785)
> Thanks for the constructive reply. I wasn’t aware of such default assumptions.

Perhaps you should put some effort into self-education and understand the context of race and racism in America before making qualitative statements about things you seem to not even grasp the basics of.

Re:Launch HN: BlackOakTV (YC S21) – Netflix for black people by afavour on Friday August 06, 2021 @10:21AM (#28087498)
> imagine the outrage if someone had made “X for white people”. There’d be riots in streets.

The difference between majority and minority is surely not that difficult to comprehend from outside the US?

Re:Launch HN: BlackOakTV (YC S21) – Netflix for black people by josteink on Friday August 06, 2021 @10:25AM (#28087574)
They are only a “minority” because someone decided to come up with a way (race) to divide people into groups where one group is bound to end up smaller, and somehow claim that division is of significant importance.

IMO the solution to that problem is definitely not to reinforce that division.

Re:Launch HN: BlackOakTV (YC S21) – Netflix for black people by pjc50 on Friday August 06, 2021 @11:11AM (#28088245)
> because someone decided to come up with a way (race) to divide people into groups where one group is bound to end up smaller

Well, yes, and this was codified into US law until the last bits were finally suppressed in the 1960s, but that doesn't mean the underlying racism has been eliminated as well.

Re:Launch HN: BlackOakTV (YC S21) – Netflix for black people by afavour on Friday August 06, 2021 @10:35AM (#28087720)
I'm sympathetic to that viewpoint but as the sibling comment pointed out, America is 76.3% white. If the push is "remove all the divisions, everyone is part of one group" then the interests of the majority within that group will dominate.
Re:Launch HN: BlackOakTV (YC S21) – Netflix for black people by RHSeeger on Friday August 06, 2021 @10:45AM (#28087855)
I believe that 76.3% includes hispanics, and hispanics are considered a minority. When people talk about whites being the majority, my inclination is to assume they're talking about non-hispanic. That lowers the percentage to around 60% or so (I'm not sure on that number); still a majority, but not as much so.
Re:Launch HN: BlackOakTV (YC S21) – Netflix for black people by werber on Friday August 06, 2021 @10:30AM (#28087643)
The United States is 76.3% white ( https://www.census.gov/quickfacts/fact/table/US/PST045219 ), it's not a division it's a number, there are just literally less people of color in the country, a minority of the population.
Re:Launch HN: BlackOakTV (YC S21) – Netflix for black people by csmpltn on Friday August 06, 2021 @10:35AM (#28087710)
> "The United States is 76.3% white ( https://www.census.gov/quickfacts/fact/table/US/PST045219 ), it's not a division it's a number, there are just literally less people of color in the country, a minority of the population."

Will it be racist to continue using this terminology then, once the US reaches 50-50?

Re:Launch HN: BlackOakTV (YC S21) – Netflix for black people by rootusrootus on Friday August 06, 2021 @12:02PM (#28089030)
60% if you exclude Hispanics. Which, of course, raises its own questions about categorizations and who gets to make the definitions.
Re:Launch HN: BlackOakTV (YC S21) – Netflix for black people by mjmsmith on Friday August 06, 2021 @11:17AM (#28088318)
"someone decided to come up with a way (race) to divide people into groups where one group is bound"

So close, and yet so far.

Re:Launch HN: BlackOakTV (YC S21) – Netflix for black people by allenbrunson on Friday August 06, 2021 @10:26AM (#28087579)
with precious few exceptions, pretty much every media outlet in the USA is already "X for white people." it's not necessary to phrase it that way, everybody already knows.

personally, i think it's great that the founders have chosen to sell this as "X for black people." it is much more honest and cuts right to the point. if they had not, if they had instead chosen words like "diversity," then inevitable drill-downs would be criticizing them for trying to hide their true intentions.

Re:Launch HN: BlackOakTV (YC S21) – Netflix for black people by ubercore on Friday August 06, 2021 @10:24AM (#28087544)
The concept of racist doesn't work that way, you can't just reverse the positions to make a statement.