This implies that getting the vaccine for the sake of others is far more pointless than we thought right? This would make getting the vaccine a much more personal matter, rather than a societal one.

No, it's not. Vaccinated individuals - even those who catch the virus - have far lower levels of the virus in their bodies, which means fewer chances for mutations.

> CDC Director Rochelle Walensky said recent studies had shown that those vaccinated individuals who do become infected with Covid have just as much viral load as the unvaccinated, making it possible for them to spread the virus to others.

This is why the CDC started recommending masks again.

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/white-house/biden-administr...

So the vaccine is for people who want to protect themselves against a serious reaction. Makes the case for vaccination far less compelling than what most people believe.

No. It's still significantly less likely that a vaccinated individual catches it in the first place, thus dramatically slowing community spread.

Seems like that is also up for debate. In this CDC study[1], 74% of cases were in the vaccinated. Probably around 69% of the population were vaccinated, meaning the fact that more than 69% of the cases were in the vaccinated suggests that the vaccinated were even more susceptible than the unvaccinated. I'm sure there are plenty of considerations with this study, but it certainly isn't glaringly obvious that vaccination reduces susceptibility.

[1]https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/70/wr/mm7031e2.htm?s_cid=mm...

Blog discussing this from shaklee3's Twitter link:

https://inguyun.medium.com/the-provincetown-outbreak-is-actu...

Misleading/debunked: https://twitter.com/sailorrooscout/status/142224191618851636...

Thank you. The majority in this thread seem to assume a higher net effect in preventing the spread through vaccination than is really the case.

Are you trying to make the claim that the vaccine makes you more susceptible to catching Covid than being unvaccinated?

You prefer death to being ill?

The new data for the delta variant shows reduced protection for unvaccinated people (e.g. public benefit) from being around vaccinated people, but still shows benefit to vaccinated people.

I'm not sure I'm getting your second sentence.

What about it? To attempt to restate it: due to the emergence of the delta mutation, it is becoming less reliable to rely on the shared benefit of others being vaccinated to protect unvaccinated or immunocompromised individuals. So the risks to all populations is increasing, but not proportionally: the speed of spread to those without the personal benefit of being vaccinated is increasing much faster.

Edit: note, I’ve seen your other link, and do wonder why that was observed for that community. Here I am referring to current CDC estimates for the country and reports of hospital utilization averages overall.

This has been debunked in a way. Viral load does not translate to how well they transmit it. Vaccinated people do not transmit covid as easily.

Viral loads in the sinuses such that it's transmissible. This is not the same as viral loads in the body.

Still means it's comparably transmissible right?

But it does not mean the same risk of generating new variants.

right, so in reality, the vaccine is little more than an invisible, permanent but intrusive mask that protects yourself, and not necessarily others...