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Re:Getting over Gold: Athletes and Mental Health by winslett on Monday August 02, 2021 @06:51AM (#28035045)
People can inadvertently fall into a bad career by being good at something.

Take a goal oriented person with outstanding genomics for sport. Their binary decision tree of life is skewed in one direction by compliments and dopamine. They build up to the ultimate outcome to be an extrinsic release. The day comes for the ultimate test. The world watches for 30 seconds and moves on. Win or lose, the world doesn’t care the way they cared. The release never came — just silence (with no monetary reward).

Re:Getting over Gold: Athletes and Mental Health by icegreentea2 on Monday August 02, 2021 @10:22AM (#28036885)
At least in the cases described by the author, the comedowns weren't because the world didn't care about if they won or lost - or if they got the release or not (or monetary reward).

The comedown was about the loss of structure, degree of control, and clarity of goals.

It's analogous to what I hear from many people (including in my head) when you finally get out of school into the real world. It's also (based on what I've read and heard - I certainly have no first hand experience), analogous to something that many veterans feel going into the "real world".

The structure, clarity of purpose, knowing that everyone has more or less the same goals, knowing that you have non-trivial control to advance yourself towards your goal (winning gold, getting the grade, surviving the deployment, etc) which you know no-one will question.

We live our normal lives never quite sure if we're trying to do aim for the right things, and never quite sure if we're doing it the right way. We spend our whole adult lives coping (and perhaps thriving) with that uncertainty. Some of us fantasize about "more simple" lives, ultimately because the reduction in choices and things to consider mean we can (hopefully) go about our lives with greater clarity.

I don't know if "the real world" could be any other way. But perhaps on some level, we keep pushing people along this "bad career" (I don't think it's bad really... but that's a different discussion) because we all on some level want to believe that that idyllic, focused life can exist.

Re:Getting over Gold: Athletes and Mental Health by sjg007 on Monday August 02, 2021 @11:09AM (#28037526)
The only constant in life is change. The sooner you embrace uncertainty the sooner you move on and thrive.
Re:Getting over Gold: Athletes and Mental Health by alexanderdmitri on Monday August 02, 2021 @11:49AM (#28038235)
Worth noting, calculus and differentiation help alleviate some of the uncertainty around determining the rate and effects of change.
Re:Getting over Gold: Athletes and Mental Health by temp0826 on Monday August 02, 2021 @12:18PM (#28038659)
I hope I can get my doctor to prescribe some
Re:Getting over Gold: Athletes and Mental Health by alexanderdmitri on Monday August 02, 2021 @01:09PM (#28039456)
I'm not sure I've ever heard of a doctor prescribing calculus. They usually prescribe medicine, a regimen, or some other combination of things.

Calculus helps here too: https://nmmra.org/calculus-and-its-use-in-medicine/

Re:Getting over Gold: Athletes and Mental Health by golemotron on Monday August 02, 2021 @11:18AM (#28037718)
Having known some veterans I can't cry for gold medalists.
Re:Getting over Gold: Athletes and Mental Health by feoren on Monday August 02, 2021 @11:23AM (#28037797)
Can we be OK with comparing things without assuming they're being equated? GP never said gold medalists have it as hard as veterans. Comparison != equation. Taking someone's comparison and elevating it to an equation is a strawman. (This fallacy is so common it deserves its own name. Is there one?)
Re:Getting over Gold: Athletes and Mental Health by dalmo3 on Monday August 02, 2021 @06:33PM (#28043532)
Fallacy of relative privation?
Re:Getting over Gold: Athletes and Mental Health by golemotron on Tuesday August 03, 2021 @10:00AM (#28049263)
The fact that that this "fallacy" has just been coined in 10K years of human history should make us suspicious. The fact is, gratitude and volunteering are healing. Recognizing when others have it worse and helping is something we should all do more.
Re:Getting over Gold: Athletes and Mental Health by dalmo3 on Tuesday August 03, 2021 @10:24AM (#28049554)
https://xkcd.com/2368/

[Fallacy of appeal to xkcd]

Re:Getting over Gold: Athletes and Mental Health by golemotron on Monday August 02, 2021 @11:31AM (#28037946)
This isn't about argumentative logic, it's about proportion and perspective. When we feel we have it rough recognizing that others may have it rougher lends a perspective that leads to gratitude and less self-centeredness. People who suffer often find release from their suffering when they help others. A program where ex-Olympians volunteer to help veterans might do both some good.
Re:Getting over Gold: Athletes and Mental Health by scott_s on Monday August 02, 2021 @02:45PM (#28040953)
> When we feel we have it rough recognizing that others may have it rougher lends a perspective that leads to gratitude and less self-centeredness.

Sometimes, for some people. For some people, when they express their feelings, and the response they are met points out that others have it worse, they sometimes feel worse. It can sometimes feel like a dismissal, invalidating their feelings and experiences. I'm using qualifiers here, but I personally think most people want to feel validated.

Re:Getting over Gold: Athletes and Mental Health by golemotron on Tuesday August 03, 2021 @10:13AM (#28049428)
The question to ask then is: after validation, what's next? How do they build their sense of self-worth? Fortunately, that sensitivity can dissipate.
Re:Getting over Gold: Athletes and Mental Health by Retric on Monday August 02, 2021 @01:01PM (#28039332)
It’s not about suffering. Olympians, Students, Soldiers, Prisoners, Widows, Retirees, and anyone else who goes from regimented patterns to increased freedoms are all to a greater or lesser degree cast adrift.

It’s rare for people to only be facing a single issue, and the degree that any one issue is impacting them can very wildly. Still, dismissing similarities because of differences in intensity is counter productive. Grief counseling often involves encouraging people to go through their daily rituals, but all of those transitions can benefit from similar advice.

Re:Getting over Gold: Athletes and Mental Health by zemvpferreira on Monday August 02, 2021 @12:41PM (#28039036)
I hope one day you can find enough simpathy to feel sorry for any good person who commits suicide regardless of how hard you judge their life to have been.
Re:Getting over Gold: Athletes and Mental Health by golemotron on Tuesday August 03, 2021 @09:48AM (#28049120)
But it's not about your feelings or mine, right? It's about their situation.
Re:Getting over Gold: Athletes and Mental Health by HWR_14 on Monday August 02, 2021 @08:47AM (#28035805)
> with no monetary reward

Many countries have a financial reward for medals. Russia gives you a new Mercedes, a six-figure USD sum and a lifetime pension for a gold (the Mercedes is for any medal, but the model gets worse.) (This was in 2014, I think they may have jiggered the reward since then). The US pays five-figures to any medal winner.

I'm not saying that it's a good business decision, but it's definitely some compensation depending on the country.

I also wonder how it works in smaller countries. If you are the gold medalist from your country do you get endorsements? Like, sure, the US team won X, but we have a lot of medals and how many people really care about that sport. As of today Iran has won one medal (a gold) and Kuwait has won one medal (a bronze). Are those people heroes back home?

*Edit: Thanks to the person who corrected my spelling

Re:Getting over Gold: Athletes and Mental Health by 45ure on Monday August 02, 2021 @09:46AM (#28036426)
There are some countries, which reward their athletes handsomely, either financially or via some form of compensation through benefits. However, you will generally find that they don't have a comprehensive program or a support network in place, and the historically low medal count might have a role to play. There are also detractors, who don't agree with the practice of paying for medals.

https://old.reddit.com/r/olympics/comments/orije1/check_out_...

https://www.cnbc.com/2021/07/29/tokyo-olympics-how-much-athl...

https://techpolicyinstitute.org/publications/miscellaneous/d...

Re:Getting over Gold: Athletes and Mental Health by dillondoyle on Monday August 02, 2021 @12:29PM (#28038819)
That $ also pales in comparison to sponsorships for the more popular sports. Even the 'medium' sports, Brooke (climbing team USA) is in car commercials now.

Though the small sports can still struggle to even get enough resources to train full time, USOC should work on that.

Re:Getting over Gold: Athletes and Mental Health by asicsp on Monday August 02, 2021 @09:19AM (#28036139)
Every medal is cherished here in India and gets lot of coverage in media.
Re:Getting over Gold: Athletes and Mental Health by _fat_santa on Monday August 02, 2021 @09:58AM (#28036592)
Even looking past the direct monetary benefits, I wonder if having "Former Olympian" on your resume will give you a boost looking for jobs.

I've noticed that even after a small stint at a prestigious aerospace company, I still get calls that stem from folks seeing that on my resume, I would imagine being a former Olympian would give you a similar leg up.

Re:Getting over Gold: Athletes and Mental Health by TGImemegen on Monday August 02, 2021 @09:06AM (#28035990)
Mercedes (if you mean the car)
Re:Getting over Gold: Athletes and Mental Health by HWR_14 on Monday August 02, 2021 @09:09AM (#28036022)
Thanks, fixed.
Re:Getting over Gold: Athletes and Mental Health by Retric on Monday August 02, 2021 @08:44AM (#28035789)
There are normally a lot of wins before you end up at the Olympics, those wins simply aren’t televised. Roughly, 1 in 750,000 people end up at each Olympics, simply going is a big deal.

Even then most people realize they have zero chance of winning their event. Many would consider making the final to be a huge accomplishment.

Re:Getting over Gold: Athletes and Mental Health by MisterBastahrd on Monday August 02, 2021 @10:57AM (#28037302)
This hasn't been true in Olympic sports in decades, even for minor athletes who didn't place.

"Olympian" is a good enough selling pitch for endorsement contracts.

Re:Getting over Gold: Athletes and Mental Health by gilbetron on Monday August 02, 2021 @11:18AM (#28037704)
The giant names in the giant sports get money, the rest, not so much: https://www.vox.com/the-goods/22586868/olympics-athletes-pay...
Re:Getting over Gold: Athletes and Mental Health by epa on Monday August 02, 2021 @10:11AM (#28036743)
To be an Olympian itself is a long time social reward for an individual. That will never lapse.
Re:Getting over Gold: Athletes and Mental Health by reidjs on Monday August 02, 2021 @10:33AM (#28037018)
Yes! Am I supposed to feel bad for olympic athletes now? That label instantly propels you into an higher status in society.
Re:Getting over Gold: Athletes and Mental Health by scott_s on Monday August 02, 2021 @03:45PM (#28041675)
> Am I supposed to feel bad for olympic athletes now?

No. That would be sympathy, where you feel bad because they feel bad. But empathy, where you understand their feelings would be good. Not just for Olympic athletes, but in general.

Re:Getting over Gold: Athletes and Mental Health by brobdingnagians on Monday August 02, 2021 @08:06AM (#28035522)
I remember a presentation I listened to years ago by a woman who knew someone who decided to become an accountant or something like that instead of going into pro-football, which would have conflicted with some of his personal values. He never regretted the decision and had a very happy life as a successful normal person with plenty of time for his family and hobbies.
Re:Getting over Gold: Athletes and Mental Health by bobthechef on Monday August 02, 2021 @09:40AM (#28036360)
Why the weird technical jargon? All you had to say was: people with certain talents can more easily fall into an unhealthy career when they are rewarded in ways that encourage them to continue on that career path.