News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:US home prices surge 17% in May, fastest in 17 years by dukeofdoom on Wednesday July 28, 2021 @05:28PM (#27989970)
Governments printed so much money, everyone knows houses are a hedge against inflation. Its not that they're worth more, its like money is worth less.
Re:US home prices surge 17% in May, fastest in 17 years by willio58 on Wednesday July 28, 2021 @05:37PM (#27990054)
I guarantee the average home buyer does not know that houses are a hedge against inflation. There's a good chance the average home buyer doesn't even know what hedge means in that context.
Re:US home prices surge 17% in May, fastest in 17 years by mortenjorck on Wednesday July 28, 2021 @06:06PM (#27990378)
The average homebuyer is also only putting 5.3% down [1], so even if they know what hedging is, they’re not exactly moving significant amounts of capital around.

[1] https://www.housingwire.com/articles/49443-the-average-down-...

Re:US home prices surge 17% in May, fastest in 17 years by gedy on Wednesday July 28, 2021 @05:41PM (#27990103)
They know houses "always go up" and "a good investment", which is another way of saying the same thing.
Re:US home prices surge 17% in May, fastest in 17 years by throwawayboise on Wednesday July 28, 2021 @05:47PM (#27990172)
Anyone who was in the market in 2008 knows that houses don't always go up. Over the long term, it's a pretty safe bet that they do, but it's not always a smooth ride.

And there are still neighborhoods that are in decline. Opportunity to get in before they gentrify? Maybe, but it's a gamble.

Re:US home prices surge 17% in May, fastest in 17 years by jollybean on Wednesday July 28, 2021 @06:06PM (#27990370)
I don't think they know what 'hedge' means, but they understand the concept that the value of the money may be going down.

That said, it's probably not a driving sentiment, rather, just the basic overall impetus of inflation and low rates.

It could be that there are whispers of increasing rates and everyone is looking to lock in.

That said, in around 2006, this was the feeling as well. The major crash. And as soon as things were getting frothy again - COVID and major turmoil.

Finally, it should be noted, that there are external factors driving inflation, if even some of it is temporary, which is cost of transport, and supply chain issues in China, and of course, tarriffs.

That said, Fed probably needs to raise rates.

Re:US home prices surge 17% in May, fastest in 17 years by EpicEng on Wednesday July 28, 2021 @06:04PM (#27990346)
Yet, how does the fed fight inflation? By raising rates, i.e., home prices will be dropping. By how much, no idea, but sure reeks of bubble territory.

Of course the loan itself is worth less to the bank during inflationary times. You make more money, your payment stays the same, and real estate prices will rise somewhat, but it's not as simple as you make it seem. I'd be worried if I were planning to sell within the next few years.

Re:US home prices surge 17% in May, fastest in 17 years by c7DJTLrn on Wednesday July 28, 2021 @05:39PM (#27990086)
BlackRock might skew the average there.
Re:US home prices surge 17% in May, fastest in 17 years by SomewhatLikely on Wednesday July 28, 2021 @05:43PM (#27990125)
https://awealthofcommonsense.com/2021/06/is-blackrock-buying...

BlackRock owns around $60 billion in real estate assets. The value of the housing market in the United States is more like $36 trillion.

Re:US home prices surge 17% in May, fastest in 17 years by Guest42 on Wednesday July 28, 2021 @05:46PM (#27990161)
Given when they started, I imagine they’ve bid on a fairly high percentage of the sales in the last 5 years and had an impact on the prices and perceived value of the housing market.
Re:US home prices surge 17% in May, fastest in 17 years by epistasis on Wednesday July 28, 2021 @05:52PM (#27990222)
House prices are going up because there aren't enough of them.

They're only a good hedge against inflation if there aren't enough of them.

All the other stuff, like low interest rates in mortgages, just accelerates the underlying cause of the price jumps.

Re:US home prices surge 17% in May, fastest in 17 years by IkmoIkmo on Wednesday July 28, 2021 @06:28PM (#27990572)
> House prices are going up because there aren't enough of them.

It's an interesting premise, I'd love to see more data on this. It's a very common claim but at least on a macro level there's a lot of indicators that would make me assume otherwise.

Typically if there isn't enough, you'd expect that the general trend has been that the availability per person is decreasing over time.

Availability can be measured in a few ways:

- Number of persons per home - Number of square feet per home

Ceteris paribus, if either are going respectively down and up, you'd see increasing availability and would assume decreasing scarcity.

The number of persons per home has been decreasing for 150 years, and dropped from 3.4 to 2.5 (-30%) in the past 60 years.

The number of square feet per home has more than doubled in that time. In other words, we have 30% fewer people and 100% more space. The square foot per person has increased by 270% in the past 60 years.

Of course you can still not have enough if demand has grown much faster. But instead I think there's good indications (and plenty of studies) that price increases are mostly being driven by low interest rates and a culture around seeing homes as a speculative asset instead of just a home that happens to have some of your capital locked up in it.

[0] https://fee.org/media/15199/housing1.png?width=600&height=38...

Re:US home prices surge 17% in May, fastest in 17 years by r00fus on Wednesday July 28, 2021 @06:04PM (#27990350)
The problem with this logic is that there is literally infinite demand assuming the following premises:

1) Real-estate is a long-term positive return investment

2) The USG will do anything in it's power to keep that premise #1 valid (QE, low/negative interest rates, etc)

3) You can use real-estate equity as part of leverage to buy more real-estate.

4) Foreign investment is allowed, so the system isn't a closed loop

It's a bubble and will keep inflating until it pops.

Re:US home prices surge 17% in May, fastest in 17 years by matmatmatmat on Wednesday July 28, 2021 @06:25PM (#27990544)
Also, there will always be limited supply. COVID-19 and remote work changed that a little bit, but there's other reasons people want to live close to population centers: Restaurants, entertainment, shopping, schools, and friends, to name a few. Most people will always want to live not very far (but not too close!) to some group of other people.
Re:US home prices surge 17% in May, fastest in 17 years by epistasis on Wednesday July 28, 2021 @08:09PM (#27991303)
All this is premised on a housing shortage. Without that housing shortage, there is no long-term positive return on investment.

There is not infinite demand even when housing is a guaranteed positive investment, because there's limited money and capital.

We have let people think that housing is always a positive return investment, instead of a bank account. And to do that, we have limited home building in the in-demand areas.

The actual way this is enforced is by home owners restricting development in their neighborhoods, a trend that is likely to continue.

Read the prospectus' of the private equity investments in residential housing and you'll see they are saying the same thing.

Re:US home prices surge 17% in May, fastest in 17 years by brandall10 on Wednesday July 28, 2021 @06:30PM (#27990585)
That’s what folks said in the 2000s. In fact that’s what they always say.
Re:US home prices surge 17% in May, fastest in 17 years by epistasis on Wednesday July 28, 2021 @08:10PM (#27991310)
In the 2000s it was true too, but not nearly as acute as now.

The downturn in home building is decades long. And the 2008 cycle reduces the construction workforce even more, and it never recovered.

Re:US home prices surge 17% in May, fastest in 17 years by UncleOxidant on Wednesday July 28, 2021 @05:36PM (#27990052)
That and we haven't built enough houses to keep up with population growth. Not enough house building was done in the aftermath of the great recession.
Re:US home prices surge 17% in May, fastest in 17 years by 1helloworld1 on Wednesday July 28, 2021 @05:52PM (#27990213)
Money is just one factor. I can think of tons of other factors - low interest rates, relatively rich city people moving from smaller apartments to houses to escape Covid, low supply because of construction halts during Covid, high price of lumber (which is slowly coming down).
Re:US home prices surge 17% in May, fastest in 17 years by paulpauper on Wednesday July 28, 2021 @05:37PM (#27990059)
hmm I don't recall QE and trillion-dollar stimulus being a 'thing' in 2004-2006. Or the 80s and 90s. The fed began to raise interest rates a lot in 2004 but the housing boom continued for 2 years later. I think it just comes down to shortages and speculation.
Re:US home prices surge 17% in May, fastest in 17 years by cm2187 on Wednesday July 28, 2021 @05:43PM (#27990127)
The OP didn’t claim that houses prices only ever go up thanks to money printing. But with the amount of money being printed all asset prices go up, it’s almost mechanical. And we have done more money printing in the last 18m than in 10y of response to the 2008 recession.
Re:US home prices surge 17% in May, fastest in 17 years by harryf on Wednesday July 28, 2021 @05:40PM (#27990098)
Here’s why the prices are going up https://youtu.be/4c-QvcHeNMw - institutional buyers…