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Re:Restaurant workers quit at record rate by darth_avocado on Tuesday July 20, 2021 @12:23PM (#27895785)
It used to be. When ordering food in a restaurant was a special thing for special occasions. It was expensive to eat out and the workers were compensated for it. Then we got to a place where food was supposed fast, cheap and accessible to everyone at any time. And suddenly you couldn't charge a lot for your food and worker wages stagnated. Sure more people work in the restaurant industry than they ever did before, but that's what happens. Quantity over quality in almost any service industry always means abundance of the service at the expense of the workers. Take a look at the rideshare business.
Re:Restaurant workers quit at record rate by danaris on Tuesday July 20, 2021 @12:30PM (#27895892)
I mean...to what extent does this correlate with the nationwide stagnation of real wages?

If your average American working a full-time job can't afford to eat out at high enough prices to keep restaurants afloat while paying decent wages, that sounds like a systemic problem—and we already know that one of those exists here.

Re:Restaurant workers quit at record rate by namdnay on Tuesday July 20, 2021 @03:23PM (#27898042)
I guess it depends how often you expect to eat out. If it’s once a month, I think most can afford more expensive restaurants
Re:Restaurant workers quit at record rate by bluGill on Tuesday July 20, 2021 @04:26PM (#27898838)
Once you learn to cook you won't eat at anything less than the most expensive. It is really hard to enjoy a meal when you are thinking "I could have done this better myself at less cost". Chains and fast food just don't provide the quality I demand for the most part, and even the independents are hit and miss.
Re:Restaurant workers quit at record rate by ska on Tuesday July 20, 2021 @05:40PM (#27899743)
> Once you learn to cook you won't eat at anything less than the most expensive.

This isn't really true. Restaurants exist to fill a bunch of different needs; experience, novelty, convenience etc. And expense isn't a particularly good predictor of quality.

I do agree that once you can cook well you're much less likely to be happy at an overpriced generic version of something... which is right where fast casual and big chain casual is aimed. But sometimes you go for the company and not the food, etc.

Re:Restaurant workers quit at record rate by okaram on Tuesday July 20, 2021 @07:54PM (#27900706)
There's a bunch of foods that are a pain to make, or will make your kitchen smell ... Plus having different plates for everyone is also super convenient
Re:Restaurant workers quit at record rate by ska on Tuesday July 20, 2021 @08:15PM (#27900833)
> There's a bunch of foods that are a pain to make

This cuts both ways, some types of pain are easier to take on at home. During service, time and focus are at a premium - which is way almost every place cuts corners on e.g., risotto.

Re:Restaurant workers quit at record rate by bluGill on Wednesday July 21, 2021 @08:58AM (#27905633)
It is at least half true though.

Once you can cook well you learn that cheap is typically bad food. Expensive food can be good or bad, the good is worth it for those other reasons you state.

Re:Restaurant workers quit at record rate by ska on Wednesday July 21, 2021 @11:15AM (#27907435)
> Once you can cook well you learn that cheap is typically bad food.

Not really. I had a great tacos the other day from a food truck, and great Ethiopian dinner on the weekend. Both cheap and not something I could reproduce easily or at all.

On the other hand, what you say usually applies to the ragu at a fast-casual.

So it depends.

Re:Restaurant workers quit at record rate by SketchySeaBeast on Tuesday July 20, 2021 @05:35PM (#27899679)
In this case you're trading out your effort for the cash. I'm happy to trade my money, which I earn much more efficiently at my job than I can save by cooking, for the food so I don't have to put in effort and can enjoy my evening out with friends. I'm also more than happy to pay a couple of dollar premium to eat fast food than try to recreate it on my own while I'm running to work.
Re:Restaurant workers quit at record rate by rdtwo on Tuesday July 20, 2021 @07:30PM (#27900531)
It’s not as great a trade off as it might seem you are pushing the externalities of bad diet on to later in life
Re:Restaurant workers quit at record rate by amyjess on Wednesday July 21, 2021 @12:26AM (#27902319)
I can guarantee you that unless you're an experienced professional chef yourself, restaurants make way better food than you can make at home. They make the same dishes night after night after night for as long as they're working for that restaurant. They have measurements of ingredients, cook time, how to cut everything just right, etc. baked into their muscle memory. They know every little trick and hack to bring out every little bit of flavor, which they've built through years of both experience and being taught on the job by more experienced cooks and chefs.

A couple of decent summaries:

* https://www.thedailymeal.com/eat/why-home-cooked-food-never-...

* https://old.reddit.com/r/explainlikeimfive/comments/1f1vr6/e...

Re:Restaurant workers quit at record rate by shados on Tuesday July 20, 2021 @08:44PM (#27901009)
Time is money, and cooking is a lot of work. We cook a lot, have a kitchen that's better than what the average restaurant has, and have eaten at some of the most prestigious restaurants in the world.

Yet sometimes I crave a fried chicken sandwich and to hell if we're going to spend the time doing that ourselves. Life's too short and that's way too much work.

Re:Restaurant workers quit at record rate by olyjohn on Tuesday July 20, 2021 @06:38PM (#27900209)
Even if you can learn how to cook, it doesn't mean you enjoy, or want to spend the time doing it.
Re:Restaurant workers quit at record rate by bjustin on Tuesday July 20, 2021 @07:16PM (#27900462)
I'm not sure it ever was. Even Pompeii had fast food restaurants: https://www.npr.org/2020/12/27/950645473/whats-on-the-menu-i...
Re:Restaurant workers quit at record rate by lashloch on Tuesday July 20, 2021 @02:54PM (#27897687)
There's something amusing to me about the idea of an industry that "used to be" sustainable. Guess it wasn't sustainable after all.
Re:Restaurant workers quit at record rate by lrdswrk00 on Tuesday July 20, 2021 @03:06PM (#27897834)
It is as a behavioral habit.

People always need to eat.

It’s not fiscally viable closed system. Restaurants operate on tiny margins and come and go as frequently as software startups.

We keep trying to hitch biological necessity to ridiculous memes of social capital accumulation, inventing more abstract and Byzantine math as if literal reality will implode if the rich can’t earn a profit.

Like healthcare, the routine is eating is obviously necessary. Is the industrialization?

Re:Restaurant workers quit at record rate by tibbydudeza on Tuesday July 20, 2021 @03:16PM (#27897946)
>> Restaurants operate on tiny margins

If you are a KFC/Burger King/McDonalds franchisee then it seems to work but I have lost count the number of establishments that open/closes in that one spot of our local mall.

Pub/Indian/Pizza/Chinese/Fish & Chips/ - they come and go.

Re:Restaurant workers quit at record rate by coredog64 on Tuesday July 20, 2021 @04:09PM (#27898627)
I would draw a further distinction. Some franchise operations (thinking Subway and Little Caesars) don’t really care if you make it: They get their money up front and you have to pay to get out.

McD is more strategic: They want a good business plan, location, etc. and are very picky at the cost of some false negatives.

Re:Restaurant workers quit at record rate by greedo on Tuesday July 20, 2021 @08:38PM (#27900974)
They also require a huge amount of capital for new franchisees.
Re:Restaurant workers quit at record rate by throwawayboise on Tuesday July 20, 2021 @03:45PM (#27898332)
McDonald's and similar jobs used to be an entry level job for teens and college students. When I was 16 I was happy to work there for minimum wage ($3.35/hr at the time). Nobody other than the mangers did it to support a family. It was never understood to be that kind of job. I don't know how we got to the point where a no-skills-required job that anyone with a pulse can learn to do in a few hours suddenly became required to support a family of four.
Re:Restaurant workers quit at record rate by tshaddox on Tuesday July 20, 2021 @05:08PM (#27899361)
> I don't know how we got to the point where a no-skills-required job that anyone with a pulse can learn to do in a few hours suddenly became required to support a family of four.

That's an odd way of looking at it. Surely what happened first isn't that the expectations of fast food jobs changed out of the blue. Could it instead be that other jobs which adults worked to support their families went away?

Re:Restaurant workers quit at record rate by lazerpants on Tuesday July 20, 2021 @08:08PM (#27900781)
The population also exploded from ~280MM in 2000 to an estimated 331MM in 2020... so maybe all of those extra people created a glut of workers.
Re:Restaurant workers quit at record rate by cratermoon on Tuesday July 20, 2021 @04:09PM (#27898631)
> Nobody other than the mangers did it to support a family. It was never understood to be that kind of job

Wrong.

"From the beginning, the minimum wage was meant to be a living wage—meaning families could live off of the pay comfortably, rather than struggling paycheck-to-paycheck" https://www.lendio.com/blog/minimum-wage-livable/

Re:Restaurant workers quit at record rate by hed on Tuesday July 20, 2021 @05:47PM (#27899812)
There are claims that it was meant to keep black people out of the workforce.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/carriesheffield/2014/04/29/on-t...

Re:Restaurant workers quit at record rate by mortehu on Tuesday July 20, 2021 @04:33PM (#27898922)
The linked article doesn't really substantiate that claim, and even so it doesn't actually contradict GP's claim about the McDonald's job.
Re:Restaurant workers quit at record rate by cratermoon on Tuesday July 20, 2021 @05:56PM (#27899897)
You're correct, McDonald's (and plenty of other large employers) probably never thought or cared whether or not their minimum wage jobs were for teenagers or parents with families. To them, it was just the least they were legally allowed to pay, and therefore just a cost to be minimized as much as possible.
Re:Restaurant workers quit at record rate by ashtonkem on Tuesday July 20, 2021 @07:59PM (#27900734)
1) The idea that McDonald’s used to be primarily staffed with students doesn’t carry water. How would the store run during school hours? Students can’t run a store when they need to be in class, someone else has to do that.

2) Have you actually looked back and compared that salary to the cost of living back then? I think you might be surprised how many people could, and were, supporting a family on a job that “anyone with a pulse” could do.

Re:Restaurant workers quit at record rate by yupper32 on Tuesday July 20, 2021 @04:25PM (#27898827)
> McDonald's and similar jobs used to be an entry level job for teens and college students. When I was 16 I was happy to work there for minimum wage

And who worked the day shift?

Re:Restaurant workers quit at record rate by bluGill on Tuesday July 20, 2021 @04:32PM (#27898909)
Spouses who needed to get out of the house while their other half was at work. They loved going to work with the same friends every day, chatting while cleaning up after the lunch shift... There was enough work to not be bored.

There are a lot of people who like having a job, but don't really need the money. Those that need the money move up to management if they can.

Re:Restaurant workers quit at record rate by ashtonkem on Tuesday July 20, 2021 @07:42PM (#27900619)
> There are a lot of people who like having a job, but don't really need the money.

These people exist, I do not believe that any of them work at fast food restaurants. That’s an incredible amount of stress to put yourself through to “get out of the house” and meet new people.

> Those that need the money move up to management if they can.

I think you’re overestimating the size of management by quite a bit.

Re:Restaurant workers quit at record rate by bluGill on Tuesday July 20, 2021 @10:47PM (#27901808)
Once you learn the job fast food is not stressful. It is hard work, but entirely routine.

Most people decide fast food management isn't for them, and move elsewhere. The ones who remain dropped out and need the free training.

Re:Restaurant workers quit at record rate by ashtonkem on Wednesday July 21, 2021 @08:12AM (#27905227)
Did you read the article? It directly countermands everything you’re saying. I personally can’t figure out why you’d make a claim that’s such transparent nonsense.

> Most people decide fast food management isn't for them, and move elsewhere.

Perhaps it was too stressful? Just a thought.

Re:Restaurant workers quit at record rate by bluGill on Wednesday July 21, 2021 @08:57AM (#27905616)
I have personally been in fast food, and I worked my way up to management. If what I say contradicts the article, then my personal experience contradicts the article.

Management is more stressful. That is a different from the line worker who has been working the same position for the last 5 years, with no interest in advancing. I saw several people refuse advancements because they didn't want the stress: they knew how to do their job and it wasn't stressful at all anymore. (they learned to shut off the customer who yells at them while the cook is behind on orders - this coping is an important skill)

Re:Restaurant workers quit at record rate by ashtonkem on Wednesday July 21, 2021 @11:02AM (#27907238)
> If what I say contradicts the article, then my personal experience contradicts the article.

Then your experience is atypical.

> Management is more stressful.

But you said it wasn't stressful. Which is it?

> they learned to shut off the customer who yells at them while the cook is behind on orders - this coping is an important skill

Uhhh, this is not a good thing. You're describing someone shutting down in the face of excessive stress.

I'd also point out that claiming that it's "not stressful" and being shouted at by customers are mutually exclusive. Being shouted at is a stressful experience, definitionally.

Re:Restaurant workers quit at record rate by bluGill on Wednesday July 21, 2021 @11:58AM (#27907975)
I said the line workers who has been in the same position for years is not stressful. Management is a very different thing.
Re:Restaurant workers quit at record rate by watwut on Tuesday July 20, 2021 @04:46PM (#27899093)
Many of those spouses in fact needed money.
Re:Restaurant workers quit at record rate by ashtonkem on Wednesday July 21, 2021 @11:19AM (#27907485)
Exactly. There are all kinds of better social outlets if you don’t need money; book clubs, knitting groups, and game nights exist precisely to fill that need. The idea that you’d go work at McDonald’s for funsies rather than out of economic necessity just doesn’t pass the sniff test.
Re:Restaurant workers quit at record rate by HarryHirsch on Tuesday July 20, 2021 @05:01PM (#27899270)
I don't know how we got to the point where a no-skills-required job that anyone with a pulse can learn to do in a few hours suddenly became required to support a family of four.

Deskilling, derisking, outsourcing. Companies used to run their own email, which required a competent mailadmin, nowadays you outsource it to Google or Microsoft.

Re:Restaurant workers quit at record rate by Johnny555 on Tuesday July 20, 2021 @06:55PM (#27900333)
Companies used to run their own email, which required a competent mailadmin, nowadays you outsource it to Google or Microsoft.

Most companies didn't hire a competent mail admin, their IT guy would run Exchange on the company fileserver as a part of his other duties.

Most of the large companies that used to hire a competent mail admin to run their mail servers still run their own mail servers.

Re:Restaurant workers quit at record rate by pessimizer on Tuesday July 20, 2021 @05:06PM (#27899331)
I don't know where you grew up, but it still looks that way in fairly affluent suburbs. In the city, the fast food workforce is 75% immigrant single mothers.
Re:Restaurant workers quit at record rate by lumost on Wednesday July 21, 2021 @01:01AM (#27902505)
The minimum wage was set to $3.35/hr in 1981, a time when 22.2% of Americans were employed in manufacturing vs. 10% today. There were many alternatives to working at McDonalds that stopped existing in the US over the last 40 years. The ultimate answer to what Americans would do instead of manufacturing turned out to be restaurant and retail work.
Re:Restaurant workers quit at record rate by ashtonkem on Wednesday July 21, 2021 @11:22AM (#27907517)
Also, consider the relative increase in housing, education, and medical care over that period of time. The inflation adjusted median home was about $178,000 in 1981, It’s $314,000 now.
Re:Restaurant workers quit at record rate by watwut on Tuesday July 20, 2021 @04:45PM (#27899066)
It used to be that most jobs were easy to learn.