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Re:A shift in American family values is fueling estrangement by zwieback on Wednesday July 14, 2021 @10:58AM (#27833775)
I don't think parent-child relationships were fundamentally better in the past, just read some Dickens or George Eliot or Henry James and you'll find plenty of agonizing both ways.

The article headline suggests there's a "shift" but doesn't really go into enough detail to explain why a shift from relationships based on duty to relationships based on fulfilment would fuel estrangement. A little more data on that would be helpful.

Re:A shift in American family values is fueling estrangement by MattGaiser on Wednesday July 14, 2021 @11:02AM (#27833828)
I would have thought that the lack of technology would distance kids from parents more. My great grandparents hopped on a boat to another country and never saw their parents again. The lack of cheap air travel would have made visiting family cross country impractical for most in decades past, but I would fly back to see family on mere long weekends.
Re:A shift in American family values is fueling estrangement by zwieback on Wednesday July 14, 2021 @11:05AM (#27833870)
Good point. Unless you were the first-born and inherited the family farm you were probably forced to find your luck elsewhere and even 20 or 30 miles would mean effectively being separated from your parents for all but special occasions.
Re:A shift in American family values is fueling estrangement by MattGaiser on Wednesday July 14, 2021 @03:45PM (#27837527)
I would be curious to know when the median human in each century saw their parents for the last time in Western society. As there were so many events where soldiers went off to war and settled where they conquered or colonists sailed off around the world never to return or conquistadors decided to just stop somewhere and marry a local woman.
Re:A shift in American family values is fueling estrangement by asdff on Thursday July 15, 2021 @01:33AM (#27841709)
I bet for the median human over history that they typically lived with their parents until they passed. You still see that in a lot of families.
Re:A shift in American family values is fueling estrangement by bitexploder on Wednesday July 14, 2021 @11:08AM (#27833918)
The context and interpretation is always shifting and different. The human condition is always the same. So much comes back to simple communication. Things people often struggle with that are required for honest communication: listening, empathy, vulnerability, patience. It isn't some great unsolved puzzle in most relationships. I have often found it only takes one side to start bridging the gap to start truly communicating. It is when both parties insist on being right and aggrieved and conceding nothing that estrangement happens. Of course there are many complex situations, mental illness, etc. It works the same way in business. Everything is so much easier when you can listen and empathize with people. Actually empathize, not just empathize with the goal of making a point or convincing someone of decision, etc.
Re:A shift in American family values is fueling estrangement by burgessaccount on Wednesday July 14, 2021 @03:05PM (#27837027)
I think the article really under-emphasizes the role of capitalism in this. If I need help with my kid, I don’t call my mom, I hire a babysitter. If my mom needs medical help, she won’t call me, she’ll pay a nurse. Goods and services that used to be procured through social bonds are now procured with cash - which creates a feedback loop where people then neglect their social bonds to acquire more cash.
Re:A shift in American family values is fueling estrangement by zwieback on Wednesday July 14, 2021 @04:12PM (#27837845)
Yeah, my pet theory is that there were two major shifts in human societies: nomadic to settlers and barter to money - everything else is details.

Of course I'm an engineer and know next to nothing about anthropology.

Re:A shift in American family values is fueling estrangement by gruez on Wednesday July 14, 2021 @04:52PM (#27838279)
>and barter to money

>Of course I'm an engineer and know next to nothing about anthropology.

You're probably wrong here.

>There is no evidence, historical or contemporary, of a society in which barter is the main mode of exchange;[32] instead, non-monetary societies operated largely along the principles of gift economy and debt.[33][34][35] When barter did in fact occur, it was usually between either complete strangers or potential enemies.[36]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_money#Non-monetary_...

Re:A shift in American family values is fueling estrangement by burgessaccount on Wednesday July 14, 2021 @05:06PM (#27838440)
“Barter” may not be the best term for it, but until the 18th/19th century (varied a lot by location), most people procured the physical goods they needed through their own family’s effort (subsistence); through in-kind payments and mutual exchange (old contracts used to specify that people would be paid in firewood, or candles…); and through favors. The switch from that model to a model of surplus and specialization, where people were paid in cash which could then be exchanged for any number of products, procured from distant places and from strangers, was indeed one of the most dramatic transformations in human history. I think we still don’t appreciate how much it shook up our old systems, and we blame things like divorce rates or child estrangement on newfangled values or bad morals when in fact they are a natural result of structural changes.
Re:A shift in American family values is fueling estrangement by asdff on Thursday July 15, 2021 @01:38AM (#27841747)
In a lot of ways having a close family or network of close friends brings you back into this gift economy. Sometimes you can do the job yourself but you just need an extra set of hands, and you return the favor in time.
Re:A shift in American family values is fueling estrangement by rjbwork on Wednesday July 14, 2021 @05:50PM (#27838870)
Indeed. In Marxist theory this is called Alienation, or rather, this is one aspect of alienation. Humans no longer engaging in productive labor for the common good and providing what they can to their community, but existing as atomic economic units existing to produce and consume.
Re:A shift in American family values is fueling estrangement by khawkins on Wednesday July 14, 2021 @05:46PM (#27838831)
The divorce rate is higher and it's easier to be comfortable living independently, both of which are stated in the article and are unquestionable. There might be other reasons, but these are definitely breaking down relationships.