I have daily human contact online at work. I've never met one of my coworkers in the flesh. In meatspace, I drive into a tiny village once a week to get mail at the post office, usually talking to nobody. Every other week I go to a more distant small town and hit the grocery and hardware store, and pass a few words with a clerk or three. It isn't unusual for a month to go by without speaking in the flesh with anyone that I'm not buying something from. I've had years go by without a non-commercial visitor to my home. I built a desk a couple of years ago and I'm still waiting to show it off to somebody.

It isn't a good way to live. But for some weird reason it isn't very lonely ... until I'm around people. Then the loneliness becomes unbearable and I retreat.

I’m generally this way too. Life is beautiful in simple solitude. Other people bring with them all manner of drama and complications, which all see completely pointless to me. I like being around people when they aren’t balls of anger, stress, drama. But those people are extremely rare and they tend to also isolate.

> Then the loneliness becomes unbearable and I retreat.

I don't understand how this goes. Could you describe your experience with more details ?

> I built a desk a couple of years ago and I'm still waiting to show it off to somebody.

Well, you could paste a picture here :).

when you are alone, you are alone, but when you are among people that you don't know how to interact with, or don't want to interact with because you don't feel you have anything in common with them, then you feel lonely.

So much this. I never feel as lonely as I do in a packed city visiting for work.

Yes, thank you.

> Well, you could paste a picture here :).

That does sound like a pretty nice thing to say! That said, i can't exactly recall seeing many "Show HN" posts about making furniture, though awesome stuff like that does occasionally appear in the comments.

I do feel like reaching out to some of the online communities for those particular interest groups could be pretty beneficial, though! For example:

  https://www.reddit.com/r/Carpentry/
  https://www.reddit.com/r/woodworking/
  https://www.reddit.com/r/DIY/

(just using Reddit here as an example, because it's one of the better known sites)

Just posting the picture right here, in this comment thread, although completely off-topic, will probably be accepted positively (net karma gain). HN folk seem to like personal tidbits, stories, and cool stuff made self.

I find there is something enormously satisfying and intrinsically rewarding about working with one's hands, doing woodworking and the like. It's especially so when one has everything to hand and one can work on without distracting interruptions (such as having just remembered that you lent your No 5 jack plane to a friend and you now need it to continue). :-)

I've found that working this way and being able to see the product of one's labors slowly forming and taking shape often brings rewards in and of itself that I seldom experience in my technical work. It's difficult for me to put into words but there's something inherent in the nature of the process and to the flow of this way of working that provides fulfillment and that one rarely seems to tire of doing it. I know a few technical/professional people who are disparaging of such pursuits and view such work as just an unskilled or menial activity—or that it's tedious and boring.

I feel sorry for them in that they've not grasped the idea or notion of doing creative work with one's hands is not the slightest bit in conflict with their professional work and in fact that both activities usually complement one another.

It also makes considerable sense to me that introverts would seek solace and comfort in such activities for the very reasons I've given.

Ohh, i largely agree with what you're saying! The results of woodworking, metalworking, any sorts of crafts or even farming are just way more fungible than a piece of software. Both can be useful to yourself and possibly society at large, both can be satisfying, but the types of satisfaction definitely differ!

Plus, it's a way to get some fresh air or have a reason to spend a bit more time outside, in addition to leisurely activities such as boating or hiking. I don't actually have any stats on this, but it seems like quite a few people who work in software also have such pursuits outside of work, some joke about retiring to a farm or a secluded place amidst nature. :)

When i have the time, i rather enjoy jogging, helping my parents with their greenhouse or vegetable garden, mowing the fieds with a tractor or even just doing some woodworking. That said, most of it is rather utilitarian and not all that pretty to look at.

Right. Utilitarian or not, it's the process that counts.

> It isn't a good way to live.

Why do you choose to live like this. I am asking because wht you are describing here stuff of my dreams. I even bought a piece of land in rural colorado during the pandemic that I plan to start building in september.

Yea, I was going to say, OP's living situation sounds like a paradise to me. Also saving up for the big piece of rural land in the middle of nowhere. It sure beats commuting hours from a cramped home or apartment stacked up in a city with thousands of others, to a cramped office building where you sit literally shoulder to shoulder with hundreds of others and try to do work all day.

Sounds like a case of “the grass is always greener”.

There are things that only start to affect you after extended time in a lifestyle.

Maybe it would actually be great for you, but it could also be that the downsides only become apparent after a year or two, at which point it can be hard to find a way to get to a good place.

EDIT: Current situation doesn’t sound healthy, though. The sweet spot is probably somewhere between the two extremes.

Exactly. I read so many posts on HN about living alone in the middle of nowhere being better than driving 2 hours each way in terrible traffic to sit shoulder to shoulder in an open plan office. There are lots of downsides to living in the middle of nowhere, healthcare, access to other resources, etc.

Don't get me wrong, I've fallen into that trap of thinking.

My wife and I bought a small RV trailer that we tow to these kinds of "middle of nowhere places", we stay for a few weeks, or long enough to make us want to come back.

My point - so.many of these comments I read on HN focus on putting all eggs in one basket. Why does it have to be bumper to bumper traffic and open plan offices vs. Hermet life in the woods?

The reality is if one finds a good job I a semi-major urban center that often allows them to live both lives. Take a month or two off int he summer, live and work remotely in the boonies, then go back to "normal life". If you live full time in the boonies and align with that lifestyle that's all you get, it's hard to then go live for a few months in the city without blowing the budget.

Variety is the spice of life?

> Exactly. I read so many posts on HN about living alone in the middle of nowhere being better than driving 2 hours each way in terrible traffic to sit shoulder to shoulder in an open plan office. There are lots of downsides to living in the middle of nowhere, healthcare, access to other resources, etc.

If those are the baseline options, then it's really easy to have the best of both: Have a nice comfy property 100 miles from a city, then make visits to the city outside of rush hour so it takes less than 2 hours.

(Though honestly 20 miles can usually get you quite rural.)

Variety is the opposite of what I want. Putting all eggs in one basket is exactly what makes me excited.

I'm not sure personal contact is that important. Imagine this page as a giant table, and when one speaks, the rest listen. Reading through all these comments feels like being in a room where conversation takes place. For older people who do not use internet, TV or Radio plays that role. Moreover, one soaks atmosphere of given community (even online), and adjusts behaviours, thoughts accordingly, to some point at least I think.

Not the poster but I could easily go a few years without human contact. It's just not important to me.

I'm in the same boat - introverted and living in the country. I have tons of human contact because I have a family with whom I live. I spend most of my non-work time with them. I go out to stores, I go to church, I even see friends and extended family on occasion.

Frankly, I have very little difference in the amount of human contact I have now vs. what I did when I lived in a city before the pandemic.

Where you live can certainly influence how much contact there is in your life, but you can be surrounded by people in the country just as easily as you can be a hermit holed up in your apartment in the city.

Not the one you replied to, and I live in the city. But my only normal IRL contact is my wife, and the cashiers at the supermarket. I have more contact with people online anyway.

On a year-to-year basis, there is usually one metal festival 2-3 concerts, 2-3 visits to the parents and every few months meeting with friends, those were pretty much the only things I lost during the pandemic.

I generally count myself as a winner of the pandemic, my job was not affected, private life barely, and I only know one person who got Covid (an American who studied in Germany a few years ago, he’s young and got over it with no lasting effects).

How does dating work when you are so strongly introverted?

I met her online.

And it’s only a recent development. The older I get, the less extroverted I am. When I was in school and early in university, I tended to stay out till noon the next day. Then it changed to 5 in the morning. And nowadays, I go to bed at a time I used to start thinking about going out ;)

Does the internet count?