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Re:Some locals say a Bitcoin mining operation is ruining one... by jandrese on Tuesday July 06, 2021 @12:19PM (#27750580)
Carbon taxes have come up in Congress from time to time, but the fossil fuel industries are much too politically connected. The excuse is usually that if you tax carbon all you do is move the polluters offshore, and since CO2 is a global problem it doesn't solve anything. Global problems need global solutions, but our international treaty systems are insufficient to make progress on this pressing issue.

People still try, Kyoto was a heroic effort, but at the end of the day the incentives to cheat are powerful and thus the level of trust is very low.

Re:Some locals say a Bitcoin mining operation is ruining one... by AnthonyMouse on Tuesday July 06, 2021 @12:48PM (#27751046)
> The excuse is usually that if you tax carbon all you do is move the polluters offshore, and since CO2 is a global problem it doesn't solve anything. Global problems need global solutions, but our international treaty systems are insufficient to make progress on this pressing issue.

Which is, of course, ridiculous.

They bought a coal power plant in New York, because it already existed. They're not going to disassemble it and transport it to China because that wouldn't be cost effective, so the alternative is that it would remain offline.

Likewise, if people buy electric cars or high MPG hybrids in the US because there is a carbon tax, that reduces the CO2 emitted by the US independent of what anybody else does. It doesn't require any international agreement; you can just do it on your own.

"What about global effects," you say. But that goes the other way.

Africa doesn't buy new cars by and large, they buy used cars exported from America and Europe. If the new cars people buy in America or Europe become electric then they'll still be electric when they're the used cars sold to Africa.

Oil is a global commodity. If America burns less then the price goes down. Which makes it cheaper for other countries to independently enact a carbon tax. Which they have the incentive to do because they get brownie points, and their domestic population doesn't rebel against a change that only keeps the price the same, and it generates revenue at the expense of the (foreign) oil companies. The more countries do this, the easier it is for the others to do it, at the expense of oil net exporters like Saudi Arabia and Russia.

Nothing about this requires an international agreement or any kind of cooperation from anyone. Just enact a carbon tax and pay the revenue back to the population as a dividend. It will be extremely popular as soon as everybody gets the first check and realizes that they get back more than they paid because some of the money comes from oil companies and other corporations (who receive none of the dividend).

Re:Some locals say a Bitcoin mining operation is ruining one... by jandrese on Tuesday July 06, 2021 @02:13PM (#27752241)
It's not too hard to imagine that there are decommissioned coal fired power plants in other parts of the world. Many were shut down when natural gas became cheaper than coal because they were too old or in a bad location for conversion to natural gas.

> Oil is a global commodity. If America burns less then the price goes down. Which makes it cheaper for other countries to independently enact a carbon tax. Which they have the incentive to do because they get brownie points, and their domestic population doesn't rebel against a change that only keeps the price the same, and it generates revenue at the expense of the (foreign) oil companies. The more countries do this, the easier it is for the others to do it, at the expense of oil net exporters like Saudi Arabia and Russia.

Or those countries don't enact a carbon tax and then start sucking up factories from countries that did.

If every country enacted the same taxes then the question comes down to which country has the most lax enforcement. If the enforcement is all the same then you have a potential solution, but of course this is a huge ask in the modern world. It's hard to get competitors to work cooperatively. As long as people treat the world economy like a big zero sum game this problem is basically unsolvable.

Re:Some locals say a Bitcoin mining operation is ruining one... by shkkmo on Tuesday July 06, 2021 @03:35PM (#27753248)
> Or those countries don't enact a carbon tax and then start sucking up factories from countries that did.

Then you can implement tarrifs on countries that refuse to implement carbon taxes.

Re:Some locals say a Bitcoin mining operation is ruining one... by jandrese on Tuesday July 06, 2021 @03:59PM (#27753494)
You can't because now they make all of your stuff. It's just as much political suicide.
Re:Some locals say a Bitcoin mining operation is ruining one... by InitialLastName on Tuesday July 06, 2021 @04:33PM (#27753879)
Just a few years ago, the US put a tariff on tons of manufactured imports based on other concerns, and it didn't turn out to be the biggest factor in the impending political suicide.
Re:Some locals say a Bitcoin mining operation is ruining one... by ericffr on Tuesday July 06, 2021 @04:14PM (#27753659)
Unfortunately, no country would do it on its own, knowing that a neighbor could have an economic advantage. By making it a global problem with a global treaty, it makes everyone accountable. Like the Cold War weapons race: until the Arm treaty, it was going nowhere. Me and my neighbors driving an electric car won't make a difference until oil companies feel the pressure from international laws
Re:Some locals say a Bitcoin mining operation is ruining one... by mirekrusin on Tuesday July 06, 2021 @03:05PM (#27752929)
Wouldn't emitting CO2 in dense forest contribute to green mass gain?
Re:Some locals say a Bitcoin mining operation is ruining one... by lrem on Tuesday July 06, 2021 @03:34PM (#27753232)
Re:Some locals say a Bitcoin mining operation is ruining one... by jandrese on Tuesday July 06, 2021 @04:00PM (#27753512)
Plants in general tend to be more water, mineral, and light limited than CO2 limited.
Re:Some locals say a Bitcoin mining operation is ruining one... by mirekrusin on Tuesday July 06, 2021 @05:37PM (#27754651)