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Re:After pressuring telecom firms, Myanmar's junta bans exec... by dharma1 on Monday July 05, 2021 @08:17AM (#27737177)
The world needs to act on Myanmar’s military coup - democratically elected leaders need to be restored and mass scale human rights abuses stopped, or it will descend into a failed state with tens of millions affected.

It looks like Russia (and China) are vetoing any UN action. What are the alternatives?

Re:After pressuring telecom firms, Myanmar's junta bans exec... by eunos on Monday July 05, 2021 @09:29AM (#27737764)
After Libyan and Syrian civil war do people think that 3rd party involvement is a good thing?
Re:After pressuring telecom firms, Myanmar's junta bans exec... by ChemSpider on Monday July 05, 2021 @09:57AM (#27738041)
There are signs and rumors that a 3rd party (here: China) is already involved, at least in the sense of "Go ahead, we will not do anything".

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/China%E2%80%93Myanmar_relation...

Libya and Syria: Same here, some 3rd parties are involved anyway. The question is if "the West" (I guess this is what you refer to) should/must/must not get involved as well.

Re:After pressuring telecom firms, Myanmar's junta bans exec... by sudosysgen on Monday July 05, 2021 @10:48AM (#27738528)
China was opposed to the military junta and preferred the previous government.

Their recent diplomatic stance isn't about involvement, it's them calculating that involvement isn't worth it and signaling to the junta that they shouldn't be afraid of involvement.

Re:After pressuring telecom firms, Myanmar's junta bans exec... by Der_Einzige on Monday July 05, 2021 @12:30PM (#27739588)
This is a huge lie. The CN government did not prefer the previous "american puppet" government at all. I don't know where this stupid meme keeps coming from but it has ZERO basis in reality...
Re:After pressuring telecom firms, Myanmar's junta bans exec... by sudosysgen on Monday July 05, 2021 @01:12PM (#27739921)
The previous government was far from an American puppet and signed billions in deals with China.

The Junta government opposed them at every turn and doesn't like foreign investment.

Re:After pressuring telecom firms, Myanmar's junta bans exec... by atatatat on Tuesday July 06, 2021 @11:41AM (#27750025)
The business apparatus understands cooperation between US-China where it makes sense during the transition.
Re:After pressuring telecom firms, Myanmar's junta bans exec... by andy_ppp on Monday July 05, 2021 @09:55AM (#27738019)
It depends, I think Syria was a half hearted involvement, I think Bosnia we did actually do some good. Anyone know why Russia and China can’t be involved/lead a UN peacekeeping effort? Why block it, dictatorships good is their only thinking?
Re:After pressuring telecom firms, Myanmar's junta bans exec... by nanis on Monday July 05, 2021 @10:18AM (#27738251)
In Bosnia, the Clinton administration and the EU provided cover for the Serbs while pretending to do something. This provided a cause around which Jihad movements could coalesce (along with Chechnya) leading to both the "Jihad travel networks" and improvements in international resource flows to sponsor those. Later, during the Kosovo conflict, the Clinton administration bombed civilians in Belgrade and blew up passenger trains, trying to assert U.S. initiative which they had ceded to the Serbs and their patron Russia.
Re:After pressuring telecom firms, Myanmar's junta bans exec... by atatatat on Tuesday July 06, 2021 @11:42AM (#27750039)
To sibling: why does anyone have to get involved until it hits their borders/supply chains?
Re:After pressuring telecom firms, Myanmar's junta bans exec... by test_epsilon on Monday July 05, 2021 @10:24AM (#27738311)
Syria was a half-hearted involvement? So sponsoring insurgencies to destabilize a sovereign country would have been good if only the government was also toppled? Iraq? The whole ISIS genocide rape torture destruction and blood letting thing was slightly inconvenient but I'm sure the people of these places will thank the enlightened noble Europeans and Americans for their gracious aid.

I would suggest not continuing to fall for it. It's not that war and intervention can't ever do "some" good. It's that the people behind wars and interventions are never interested in actually helping people. It's purely for money and power.

Re:After pressuring telecom firms, Myanmar's junta bans exec... by baybal2 on Tuesday July 06, 2021 @04:38AM (#27745607)
> After Libyan and Syrian civil war do people think that 3rd party involvement is a good thing?

What 3rd party involvement?

There are only 2 third parties doing anything.

Russia helping Assad to flatten his own country to the ground

And Turkey trying to at least deny them a complete victory by enforcing the Idlib pocket with its troops, and firepower on the ground.

Re:After pressuring telecom firms, Myanmar's junta bans exec... by nanis on Monday July 05, 2021 @10:14AM (#27738215)
Are you implicitly assuming that the civil wars in Libya and Syria started without active involvement by the U.S. and other governments and they got involved afterwards?
Re:After pressuring telecom firms, Myanmar's junta bans exec... by hulitu on Monday July 05, 2021 @12:27PM (#27739563)
Of course. Ever heard of CIA getting involved in something ?
Re:After pressuring telecom firms, Myanmar's junta bans exec... by rjsw on Monday July 05, 2021 @10:50AM (#27738544)
I feel that Vietnam should get more credit than it did for invading Cambodia to depose the Khmer Rouge.
Re:After pressuring telecom firms, Myanmar's junta bans exec... by nate_meurer on Monday July 05, 2021 @12:50PM (#27739778)
I agree. In the West this history is too obscure.
Re:After pressuring telecom firms, Myanmar's junta bans exec... by mschuster91 on Monday July 05, 2021 @09:04AM (#27737529)
> It looks like Russia (and China) are vetoing any UN action. What are the alternatives?

There are no alternatives, that is part of the problem. The UN was primarily created to prevent all-out war between the US and Russia... young people like me expect it to be more than that though.

In the past, as a result the US and various European nations have gone off on their own to engage in various conflicts, both in military actions and in economic sanctions, on sometimes extremely thin or nonexistent legal grounds.

That's unrealistic to expect here:

- there isn't much trade between Myanmar and the EU to sanction (and the bit that is can and will be covered by Russia and China)

- military action is out of the question since the US has more pressing problems to solve than a military junta - Taiwan and interior issues - and the EU is blocked by its 100% consensus requirements on foreign action, incompetent and underfunded armies and general instability

- generally, outside of human rights activists no one cares about human rights abuses, that is the sad and tragic reality.

- as for the UN: there isn't any hope for multilateral action any more there either, it's a dead paperweight. No single nation there acts on good faith and a sense of common humanity, everyone is just looking for their own interests.

Re:After pressuring telecom firms, Myanmar's junta bans exec... by baybal2 on Monday July 05, 2021 @10:35AM (#27738410)
> There are no alternatives, that is part of the problem. The UN was primarily created to prevent all-out war between the US and Russia...

Please don't pervert the history. This wasn't the case. The UN was created as a reaction to the horror of WWII and the failure of the League of Nations.

It was to become a League of Democracies, an iron fist against the next Nazi Germany wannabe, a guarantor of the "Never Again."

It was the US who go the idea to get USSR into it, pretty much sabotaging it on the day 1.

> There are no alternatives

The alternative is here, and it's the resolution 377 action.

Re:After pressuring telecom firms, Myanmar's junta bans exec... by mschuster91 on Monday July 05, 2021 @11:11AM (#27738770)
> It was to become a League of Democracies, an iron fist against the next Nazi Germany wannabe, a guarantor of the "Never Again."

That is what both you and I hope that the UN would have been, but unfortunately not much based in reality.

> It was the US who go the idea to get USSR into it, pretty much sabotaging it on the day 1.

Without Soviet cooperation, the purpose of the UN would have been moot from day 1.

Re:After pressuring telecom firms, Myanmar's junta bans exec... by zozbot234 on Monday July 05, 2021 @10:56AM (#27738610)
This is not a Nazi Germany wannabe, it's just a garden variety tinpot dictatorship. There are a lot like it in the world, and we've figured out that outside intervention is not a good idea in such cases. It's the responsibility of a country's own people to pursue free government for themselves, assuming that they care to. Reap what you sow, and all that.
Re:After pressuring telecom firms, Myanmar's junta bans exec... by mschuster91 on Monday July 05, 2021 @11:14AM (#27738799)
> It's the responsibility of a country's own people to pursue free government for themselves, assuming that they care to. Reap what you sow, and all that.

This isn't possible often enough. There are countless dictatorships that use any means necessary to ensure their survival, from starving their populations (North Korea) to murdering or beating them up on the streets (Tiananmen massacre, Arab Spring revolutions) or silencing any opposition (Hongkong, Belarus).

Most freedom movements need some form of support from the outside, be it arms, money, logistic or ideologic support.

Re:After pressuring telecom firms, Myanmar's junta bans exec... by zozbot234 on Monday July 05, 2021 @11:47AM (#27739111)
> There are countless dictatorships that use any means necessary to ensure their survival

These things only matter in the short run but successful, enduring democratization is a very long game. Look at Taiwan and South Korea - relatively straightforward when looking at them from the outside, and yet they took decades to become stable democracies with real respect for fundamental rights. More challenging cases might take generations.

> Most freedom movements need some form of support from the outside, be it arms, money, logistic or ideologic support.

Most often, the needed support can come from the inside, as influential groups within the country start supporting a peaceful transition to liberal democracy. Arguably, this is even the best possible case.

Re:After pressuring telecom firms, Myanmar's junta bans exec... by mschuster91 on Monday July 05, 2021 @02:13PM (#27740474)
> as influential groups within the country start supporting a peaceful transition to liberal democracy

For that, you need influential groups that can benefit from changing the status quo. In a country that has been suffering from decades of corruption, the elites are generally so widely despised by the population that they have to fear to be imprisoned at best and executed at worst, were they to lose power.

It's even worse in countries like the Lebanon, Syria, Yemen or former Yugoslavian member states, where religion, ethnic disputes and sometimes hundreds of years worth of land disputes and squabbles come into the mix.

Re:After pressuring telecom firms, Myanmar's junta bans exec... by zozbot234 on Monday July 05, 2021 @02:26PM (#27740598)
> For that, you need influential groups that can benefit from changing the status quo. In a country that has been suffering from decades of corruption ... religion, ethnic disputes and sometimes hundreds of years worth of land disputes and squabbles come into the mix.

I don't exactly disagree, but this is why it can make sense to pursue basic state-building ("good government") and liberalization (respect for basic rights and freedoms) well before worrying about electoral democracy, or a transfer of power away from current policy makers. In practice, the latter is essentially useless without the former - but in the long run, more freedom opens up opportunities for more democracy.

Re:After pressuring telecom firms, Myanmar's junta bans exec... by tradesurplus on Tuesday July 06, 2021 @11:14AM (#27749672)
You clearly have no idea what you're talking about or any knowledge of Burma's history. General Hlaing's junta has already committed one genocide against the Rohingya in 2017 and given the continued opportunities will turn Burma into a failed state, cause the death of millions and destabilise the region. Just because they lack Nazi Germany's industrial capacity and sharp uniforms doesn't mean they won't continue to murder, maim and slaughter.
Re:After pressuring telecom firms, Myanmar's junta bans exec... by LargoLasskhyfv on Wednesday July 07, 2021 @03:48AM (#27758481)
Funny that you bring the Nazis into play.

I've read somewhere that the Rohingya aren't liked that much in all the regions they dispersed into, because much of them worked as the shock troops of the British Empire, protecting its interests. That seems to be true even for the time when their home was called Arakan, and they weren't so dispersed.

So they are shunned where they did the shock trooping for the Brits, or tried to separate and do their own islamic thing afterwards, in multiethnic regions.

Karma is a bitch, isn't it?

Re:After pressuring telecom firms, Myanmar's junta bans exec... by undfg on Monday July 05, 2021 @10:02AM (#27738098)
No we do not have to act. It's not our problem. It's none of our business.
Re:After pressuring telecom firms, Myanmar's junta bans exec... by tinus_hn on Monday July 05, 2021 @10:13AM (#27738209)
If we don’t act, we don’t get to say ‘never again’.
Re:After pressuring telecom firms, Myanmar's junta bans exec... by delecti on Monday July 05, 2021 @10:16AM (#27738240)
"Never again" has never been the truth. Standing international policy seems to be to ignore just about any atrocities as long as they're within a country's borders, and to a country's own citizens, with a couple rare exceptions when there's oil we can liberate.
Re:After pressuring telecom firms, Myanmar's junta bans exec... by tomjen3 on Monday July 05, 2021 @10:15AM (#27738234)
China has already ensured that with their genocide.
Re:After pressuring telecom firms, Myanmar's junta bans exec... by naveen99 on Monday July 05, 2021 @09:19AM (#27737669)
Foreign billionaires adopting some of the military leadership and brokering a peace (piece) ?
Re:After pressuring telecom firms, Myanmar's junta bans exec... by tomjen3 on Monday July 05, 2021 @10:15AM (#27738228)
We also need to do something about Iran, North Korea, Eritrea, DRC, etc.

Why Myanmar now?

Re:After pressuring telecom firms, Myanmar's junta bans exec... by baybal2 on Monday July 05, 2021 @08:25AM (#27737243)
1. Pull more countries under resolution 377, to put more pressure on Burma around the security council

2. India pulls 1971 on Burmese junta, if Modi's Achand Bharat brouhaha is worth anything

3. International intervention under resolution 377

4. Surgical strike on the junta leadership without broad UN involvement by somebody brave enough

Re:After pressuring telecom firms, Myanmar's junta bans exec... by roenxi on Monday July 05, 2021 @08:52AM (#27737438)
> 4. Surgical strike on the junta leadership without broad UN involvement by somebody brave enough

Dear me. I hope not. If you look at a map, Burma is nestled between the two nuclear armed up-and-coming superpowers. This is not the part of the world to be seeking adventure by doing political assassinations on military figures.

That sounds almost like the script before WWI.

Re:After pressuring telecom firms, Myanmar's junta bans exec... by ridiculous_leke on Monday July 05, 2021 @11:27AM (#27738911)
> India pulls 1971 on Burmese junta, if Modi's Achand Bharat brouhaha is worth anything

Don't expect anything unless thousands of refugees start pouring in India.

Re:After pressuring telecom firms, Myanmar's junta bans exec... by baybal2 on Monday July 05, 2021 @11:51AM (#27739162)
Myanmar violence triggers asylum crisis for India's northeastern states

https://m.dw.com/en/myanmar-india-mizoram-asylum/a-57171804